🇧🇷 Brazil Episodes

Guests: Pierpaolo Bottini, lawyer and professor of Criminal Law at the USP Law School; and Rafael Alcadipani, professor at FGV and member of the Brazilian Public Security Forum. In Brazil, 28.5 million people live with organized crime in the neighborhood where they live. This is shown by a Datafolha survey commissioned by the Brazilian Public Security Forum, released on October 16. The data from this survey reveal that criminal factions and militias are present in the daily lives of 19% of Brazilians aged 16 or over – last year, this percentage was 14%. Data from the Ministry of Justice also indicate that 88 criminal factions operate in the country – the largest of these are the PCC and the CV. The mega-operation in Rio de Janeiro against Comando Vermelho, which ended with 121 deaths, including 4 police officers, exposes a question that has haunted the country for decades: how to combat organized crime? To answer this question, Natuza Nery receives two guests: Rafael Alcadipani and Pierpaolo Bottini and Rafael Alcadipani. Professor at FGV and member of the Brazilian Public Security Forum, Alcadipani indicates the pillars of this fight. The professor defends the professionalization of the police, the increase in the Justice system and the improvement in the articulation between the security forces. He points out the need to create an anti-mafia authority, with states and the federal government working together. Then, the conversation is with Pierpaolo Bottini, professor of Criminal Law at the USP Law School. Bottini draws attention to the effectiveness of economically suffocating criminal organizations. For him, it is only by limiting the financial flow of organized crime that it is possible to combat the factions.

Guests: Ricardo Balestreri, coordinator of the Center for Social Urbanism and Public Security at Insper Cidades; and Bernardo Mello Franco, columnist for the newspaper O Globo and commentator for CBN radio. An image marked the day after the deadliest operation in the history of Rio de Janeiro. Dozens of bodies lined up were placed by residents in a square in the Penha Complex, in the North Zone of Rio. With the bodies removed from the forest, the number of deaths in the mega-operation against Comando Vermelho jumped to 121 – including 4 police officers. For the governor of Rio de Janeiro, Cláudio Castro (PL), the mega-operation was “a success”. The day after the operation also revealed details of how the police conducted the action: traffickers were attracted to the top of the forest, in a kind of “Bope wall”, as the police detailed. Also on Wednesday (29), the Minister of Justice met with the governor of Rio, and new political clashes over public security were recorded between the federal and state governments. In this episode, Natuza Nery receives Ricardo Balestreri, coordinator of the Center for Social Urbanism and Public Security at Insper Cidades. He analyzes the statements of Cláudio Castro and the strategy adopted by the Rio police in the operation last Tuesday. Balestreri reinforces the need for joint action between all entities of the federation in the fight against organized crime. Afterwards, Natuza talks with journalist Bernardo Mello Franco to explain what answers Cláudio Castro gave about the actions of the security forces and how politics and police mix in Rio de Janeiro. Bernardo also assesses the conduct of the federal government in the case and what kind of impact this type of conflict has on the conduct of public security policies - a topic that most worries the Brazilian population.

Convidados: Henrique Coelho, repórter do g1 Rio; e Carolina Ricardo, diretora-executiva do Instituto Sou da Paz. A megaoperação contra o Comando Vermelho nos complexos do Alemão e da Penha terminou com mais de 60 mortos. Uma guerra entre policiais e traficantes, que se transformou na operação mais letal da história do Rio de Janeiro. Durante a operação - iniciada ainda na madrugada da terça-feira na Zona Norte do Rio -, bandidos espalharam barricadas pela cidade. Na ofensiva contra policiais, criminosos lançaram drones com bombas e usaram armamento de guerra: mais de 90 fuzis foram apreendidos. A terça-feira de caos no Rio de Janeiro expôs a capacidade bélica das facções. Um estudo do Instituto Sou da Paz calcula que, só no ano de 2023, 1.655 fuzis foram apreendidos na região Sudeste - berço das principais organizações criminosas do Brasil. Neste episódio, Natuza Nery recebe Henrique Coelho, repórter do g1 Rio, para relatar como foi o dia de caos na capital fluminense. Henrique explica as particularidades geográficas dos complexos do Alemão e da Penha, onde o Comando Vermelho tem raízes. Ele fala também sobre como a operação se transformou em motivo de desavença entre o governador do RJ, Cláudio Castro (PL), e o governo federal. Depois, Natuza conversa com Carolina Ricardo, diretora-executiva do Instituto Sou da Paz. Carolina traça um retrato do tipo de armamento que está sob o poder de facções criminosas – e explica o caminho que elas fazem até chegar às mãos do crime. E conclui que tipo de medidas é preciso tomar para que armamentos de guerra não circulem no país.

Guest: Matias Spektor, professor at the School of International Relations of the Getulio Vargas Foundation of São Paulo. A day after meeting in Malaysia, the presidents of Brazil and the USA set the tone for the meeting. Lula was confident and said that the two countries should close an agreement on tariffs. On the other side, Trump said he doesn't know if anything will happen. This Monday (27th), Trump also wished Lula a happy 80th birthday and praised the Brazilian president. The meeting between the two illustrates a relaxation in the relationship between Brazil and the USA, but it does not yet represent a definitive solution to the tariff imposed by Trump on Brazilian products. In conversation with Natuza Nery in this episode, Professor Matias Spektor explains what happens from now on and what is on the negotiating table, which officially started this Monday. Professor of International Relations at FGV-SP, Spektor answers what still needs to be done so that Brazilian products are no longer taxed at 50%: "this process will take months, but the direction is very positive for Brazil," he says. He analyzes the political reflections - both for Lula and Trump - of the rapprochement between the two presidents.

Guest: Fabrício Vitorino, journalist, master in Russian culture from USP and PhD candidate in International Relations at UFSC. In the geopolitical arena, new movements may compromise Vladimir Putin's objectives. Last week, after Donald Trump canceled a meeting with the Russian president, the US sanctioned the country's two largest oil companies. Subsequently, the European Union announced a new round of sanctions against Russia, including a threat to confiscate around 140 billion euros to compensate Ukraine. On the war front, Moscow's offensives continue with more force than before. This is what journalist and Russian culture expert Fabrício Vitorino saw firsthand. Guest of Natuza Nery in this episode, Fabrício traveled through a large part of Ukrainian territory in October. He reports the hours of tension he experienced during the biggest bombing suffered by Lviv, a city in western Ukraine — a region not even claimed by Moscow. Fabrício also recounts the forms of resistance expressed by the population of Odessa, in the south, where Russian attacks have become routine. Finally, he analyzes the possible next steps of Trump, Putin and Zelensky in the search for a ceasefire agreement.

Guests: Ivo Herzog, son of Vladimir Herzog, founder and president of the Vladimir Herzog Institute Council; and Rogério Sottili, executive director of the Vladimir Herzog Institute. October 24, 1975, a Friday: journalist Vladimir Herzog, then director of the journalism department at TV Cultura, was summoned by agents of the military dictatorship to testify about his relationship with the Brazilian Communist Party. Vlado, who had no connection with the party, voluntarily presented himself the next morning at the DOI-Codi in Vila Mariana, São Paulo. On the afternoon of October 25, Vlado was dead. The regime, then in the hands of Ernesto Geisel, tried to cover up the crime with a lie. The allegation was that Vlado had committed suicide. His wife, Clarice, always denied it. The staged photo of the journalist's body — with a belt around his neck, knees bent and feet touching the ground — became a symbol of the State's brutality during the dictatorship. On the 50th anniversary of Vladimir Herzog's death, Natuza Nery talks with Ivo Herzog, the journalist's son and director of the institute that bears his father's name. Ivo, who was 9 years old when his father was tortured and killed, recalls the day Vlado was summoned by the dictatorship and what happened soon after his death. Ivo talks about the role of the families of victims in the struggle for justice for the disappeared and murdered during the dictatorship. Afterwards, the conversation is with Rogério Sottili, executive director of the Vladimir Herzog Institute.

Guest: Oliver Stuenkel, FGV International Relations professor, Harvard University and Carnegie Endowment researcher. Nepal, Madagascar, Kenya, Morocco, Peru, Indonesia... Demonstrations led by Generation Z youth – born from mid-1990s to early 2010s – have spread worldwide. In Nepal and Madagascar, the wave of demonstrations overthrew the governments. In Peru, the newly appointed president decreed 30 days of emergency amidst the wave of violence. Motivated by different reasons, all these protests have a massive presence of young people dissatisfied with the political and economic elites, in a scenario of "palpable pessimism" that drives mobilizations. This is what Oliver Stuenkel explains in conversation with Natuza Nery in this episode. Oliver talks about how Generation Z perceives that political elites are "disconnected" from the real problems of the population's daily life. Professor of International Relations at FGV, researcher at Harvard University and the Carnegie Endowment, in the USA, Oliver assesses what unites these young people in different parts of the world. "They all have common agendas, which explains the use of similar symbols," he says, citing the use of the pirate flag from the anime series "One Piece." Oliver highlights the fundamental role of social media in the organization and spread of protests. And he reflects on the risk of authoritarian advancement, citing the case of Madagascar, where the demonstrations overthrew the government, but an Army colonel took power.

Guest: Thiago Faria, policy coordinator for the O Globo newspaper in Brasília. In December 2022, the Supreme Court ended the rapporteur's amendments. Since then, another type of parliamentary amendment has gained prominence: PIX amendments. In this type of amendment, local governments and municipalities indicated by parliamentarians receive money from Union resources directly into their accounts. According to the Comptroller General of the Union (CGU), the amount transferred to local governments and municipalities through PIX amendments grew almost 13 times between 2020 and 2024. This year, out of a total of R$50 billion in parliamentary amendments, almost R$8 billion were allocated to this modality – money that is even more difficult to track. This Thursday (23), the STF will hold a public hearing in which Congress needs to explain whether it has managed to increase the transparency and traceability of these amendments. In this episode, Natuza Nery receives journalist Thiago Faria, policy coordinator for the O Globo newspaper in Brasília. Author of a report entitled "The amendment disappeared," Thiago recounts what he discovered while investigating the fate of parliamentary amendments across the country. He explains how billions of reais are "scattered" into bank accounts of various municipalities. The journalist recounts what he heard from residents, mayors and parliamentarians about the money that should be spent on works and benefits for the population. He cites the case of the city of Zabelê, in Paraíba, a city of just over 2,000 inhabitants that received R$3 million in 2023 for the construction of a park: "today the park does not exist, and the money has disappeared," he says.

Guest: Mauricio Moura, founder of the IDEIA Research Institute and Professor at George Washington University. Under the motto “No Kings,” millions of protesters took to the streets in over 2,600 US cities last Saturday. An estimated 10 million people participated in the protests – marked by the presence of children and families, and with protesters even wearing costumes. Participants criticize what they see as a shift towards authoritarianism in President Donald Trump's administration. In response, Trump posted an artificially intelligent video mocking the protesters. In the video, the president appeared wearing a crown and piloting a plane with the words "King Trump". The president's party downplayed the acts and stated that they are "anti-American". This was the third mass mobilization since Trump's return to the White House, and occurred amid a government shutdown. In addition to having federal services closed, the US is experiencing a test of the balance of powers. In this episode, Natuza Nery receives Mauricio Moura, founder of the IDEIA Research Institute and professor at George Washington University. Mauricio assesses the scope of the latest protests against Trump and answers what is the degree of governability of the American president with his current level of popularity.

Guest: Marcelo Neri, economist and director of FGV Social. Income inequality in Brazil reached its lowest level in history in 2024, according to IBGE data. Also last year, the average income of Brazilians increased. Between 2022 and 2024, 17 million Brazilians escaped poverty. These positive data are joined by others: in addition to the average income of Brazilians having increased, the country left the UN hunger map after 3 years. Despite the positive results, there is still a long way to go. For 77% of Brazilians, the country is still very unequal. In 2024, the richest 1% of the country's population had an average income 30.5 times higher than the poorest half of the population. Numbers that reveal a structural inequality. To analyze what the indicators reveal about the current status of Brazilian inequality, Victor Boyadjian listens to economist Marcelo Neri. Director of FGV Social, Neri outlines the set of factors that led to the improvement of the Brazilian scenario. "Objective data show that income has never been so high. Poverty has never been so low," he says. Marcelo answers what role the improvement of the labor market and the income of Brazilians played in the recent results and what needs to be done for Brazil to escape the paradox of being an unequal country. "Growth is fundamental. But it is necessary to combat inequality using the instruments we have," he says, citing Bolsa Família and other social programs. And he concludes: "if we implement policies to combat [poverty], inequality will fall".

Convidado: Brian Winter, editor-chefe da revista Americas Quarterly e analista político especializado em América Latina. A portas fechadas, o ministro das Relações Exteriores do Brasil, Mauro Vieira, se reuniu nesta quinta-feira (16) em Washington com o secretário de Estado dos Estados Unidos, Marco Rubio. O encontro na Casa Branca durou cerca de 1h15 e resultou em uma “conversa muito produtiva”, segundo Mauro Vieira afirmou em pronunciamento. O tarifaço de 50% dos Estados Unidos a produtos brasileiros foi um dos principais temas, segundo o ministro de Relações Exteriores. O ministro afirmou que “prevaleceu uma atitude construtiva” na reunião, marcada por um tom de cooperação e respeito mútuo. O encontro aconteceu na semana seguinte ao telefonema entre os presidentes Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva e Donald Trump, e foi interpretado como um passo na tentativa de distensão entre Brasil e Estados Unidos. Em conversa com Natuza Nery pouco após o encontro acabar, Brian Winter, analista político especializado em América Latina, explica o momento da relação entre os dois países. Editor-chefe da revista Americas Quarterly, Brian avalia que a reserva de terras raras do Brasil, a segunda maior do mundo, pode ser um ponto de unidade entre os dois países. Brian também responde como a ameaça de Trump de atacar a Venezuela esbarra no Brasil, e quais as consequências para a América Latina. Nesta semana, o presidente dos EUA confirmou ter autorizado operações secretas da Agência Central de Inteligência (CIA, na sigla em inglês) na Venezuela de Nicolás Maduro e disse estudar ataques terrestres contra cartéis de drogas em solo venezuelano. Guest: Brian Winter, editor-in-chief of Americas Quarterly magazine and political analyst specializing in Latin America. Behind closed doors, Brazil's Foreign Minister Mauro Vieira met this Thursday (16th) in Washington with US Secretary of State Marco Rubio. The meeting at the White House lasted about 1 hour and 15 minutes and resulted in a "very productive conversation," according to Mauro Vieira in a statement. The United States' 50% tariff increase on Brazilian products was one of the main topics, according to the Foreign Minister. The minister stated that "a constructive attitude prevailed" at the meeting, marked by a tone of cooperation and mutual respect. The meeting took place the week after the phone call between Presidents Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva and Donald Trump, and was interpreted as a step in the attempt to ease tensions between Brazil and the United States. In a conversation with Natuza Nery shortly after the meeting ended, Brian Winter, a political analyst specializing in Latin America, explains the current state of relations between the two countries. Editor-in-chief of Americas Quarterly magazine, Brian believes that Brazil's rare earth reserves, the second largest in the world, could be a point of unity between the two countries. Brian also answers how Trump's threat to attack Venezuela affects Brazil, and what the consequences are for Latin America. This week, the US president confirmed that he had authorized secret operations by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) in Nicolás Maduro's Venezuela and said he was studying ground attacks against drug cartels on Venezuelan soil.

Convidados: Guilherme Balza, GloboNews Brasília; Cláudio Couto, FGV-SP. Planalto derrotado na Câmara. Centrão votou contra. Governo demite indicados do Centrão. Natuza Nery entrevista Guilherme Balza sobre as demissões. Ele explica o cálculo do governo. Depois, Cláudio Couto explica "governo congressual" e analisa a retaliação.

Guests: Nara Fernandes de Oliveira, public school teacher from RJ, and Paulo Blikstein, associate professor at the School of Education and Director of the Lemann Center for Brazilian Studies at Columbia University (USA). More than half of Brazilian teachers say they have incorporated artificial intelligence into their work routine. This is according to a survey released by the OECD (Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development) in early October: 56% of teachers in the country use technology to prepare classes and seek new forms of teaching — an index 20 percentage points above the average of developed countries. The data reinforces how, even in a scenario of technological inequality, AI was quickly absorbed into educational practices. An advance that is accompanied by obstacles. The same survey indicates that 64% of teachers say they do not have the knowledge or skills necessary to use AI tools, and six out of ten say that the schools where they work lack adequate infrastructure to deal with this type of tool. In this episode, Victor Boyadjian talks with Nara Fernandes de Oliveira, a teacher who explains how artificial intelligence has already changed the way she prepares classes. Nara, who teaches at the Barão de Tefé State College, in Seropédica (RJ), gives examples of how artificial intelligence is being used, in practice, in the classroom and in the relationship with students. And what are the challenges she faces. On this Teachers' Day, Nara answers whether she fears for the future of the profession from the use of this type of technology. To explain how AI can support the learning process without replacing students' cognitive effort, Victor receives Paulo Blikstein, associate professor at the School of Education and director of the Lemann Center for Brazilian Studies at Columbia University. He details how artificial intelligence can be used to develop essential skills in teaching.

Convidados: Murilo Salviano, correspondente da TV Globo na Europa e enviado especial ao Oriente Médio. Ele conversa com Natuza Nery direto de Jerusalém. E Hussein Ali Kalout, cientista político, pesquisador da Universidade Harvard e conselheiro do CEBRI, o Centro Brasileiro de Relações Internacionais. O dia 13 de outubro de 2025 marcou a libertação dos últimos 20 reféns israelenses que ainda eram mantidos vivos pelo grupo terrorista Hamas. Nesta segunda-feira, eles foram soltos após mais de 700 dias de cativeiro – ainda há expectativa para a devolução dos corpos de outros mais 20 reféns mortos. A libertação é parte do acordo que fez Israel liberar quase 2 mil presos palestinos. No mesmo dia, o presidente dos EUA, Donald Trump, discursou no parlamento de Israel e falou em “fim da era do terror e da morte”. Depois, Trump embarcou para o Egito, onde assinou um cessar-fogo para Gaza junto com outros líderes árabes - sem representantes de Israel e do Hamas. O plano dá início a uma nova fase para um plano de paz na região e a reconstrução de Gaza depois de dois anos de uma guerra que matou mais de 60 mil palestinos. Trump afirmou que a segunda etapa do acordo já começou. Enviado especial da Globo para o Oriente Médio, o correspondente Murilo Salviano relata a Natuza Nery o que viu no dia considerado histórico pelos dois lados do conflito. Direto de Jerusalém, Murilo conta como o momento é de “alívio” para israelenses e palestinos. Ele descreve a situação em Israel e o que ouviu de palestinos sobre a promessa de pausa neste conflito histórico. Depois, Natuza conversa com Hussein Ali Kalout, cientista político e conselheiro do Cebri (Centro Brasileiro de Relações Internacionais). Kalout, que também é pesquisador da Universidade Harvard, analisa o acordo anunciado por Trump – e os significados de o texto ter sido assinado com outros líderes árabes, sem a presença de Netanyahu e do Hamas. Ele explica qual é o grande desafio para a reconstrução da Faixa de Gaza, onde itens básicos, como água e comida, são escassos para uma população devastada pela guerra.

Guest: Felipe Recondo, journalist and researcher of the STF's history. Announced on Thursday (9th), Minister Luís Roberto Barroso's early retirement paves the way for President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva (PT) to make a new nomination to the Supreme Federal Court. Nominated by President Dilma Rousseff in 2013, Barroso would have been entitled to remain on the Supreme Court until 2033 – when he turns 75. In this episode, Natuza Nery talks with Felipe Recondo, a journalist who researches the history of the Supreme Court. Recondo revisits Barroso's profile, recalls the minister's positions in landmark trials, and points out what to expect from the Court from now on. He answers what are the chances of each of the most speculated names for Barroso's vacancy. Author of the books “The Eleven” and “The Tribune: How the Supreme Court united in the face of the authoritarian threat,” he analyzes the reasons that led Barroso to anticipate his retirement. And he assesses the change in the profile of the ministers appointed by Lula to the Supreme Court – today, 4 of the 11 ministers who went to the Court were appointed by the president: Cármen Lúcia, Dias Toffoli, Cristiano Zanin and Flávio Dino.

Convidados: João Miragaya, mestre em História pela Universidade de Tel Aviv e assessor do Instituto Brasil Israel; e Tanguy Baghdadi, professor de Política Internacional e apresentador do podcast Petit Journal. Dois anos depois de os brutais ataques do Hamas matarem 1.200 pessoas no sul de Israel, o presidente dos EUA, Donald Trump, anunciou um acordo entre o governo israelense e o grupo terrorista. Nesta quinta-feira, o Hamas declarou o fim da guerra e afirmou esperar um cessar-fogo permanente. Do lado israelense, ministros se reuniram e aprovaram o plano de paz. Como parte das negociações, os reféns israelenses sob poder do Hamas desde outubro de 2023 devem ser libertados entre segunda e terça-feira, segundo Trump. Em troca, Israel vai soltar prisioneiros palestinos. Dos dois lados, a expectativa é de que o atual acordo coloque fim a uma guerra que deixou mais de 60 mil palestinos mortos. Direto de Israel, João Miragaya conversa com Natuza Nery para relatar qual a reação da população após o anúncio de acordo entre o governo Netanyahu e o grupo terrorista Hamas. Mestre em História pela Universidade de Tel Aviv e assessor do Instituto Brasil-Israel, Miragaya explica detalhes do cessar-fogo anunciado por Donald Trump, fala de como a libertação dos reféns envolve uma "logística muito complicada" e analisa como pode ser o futuro governo de Gaza. Depois, Natuza recebe Tanguy Baghdadi para explicar por que Trump apresentou um plano de acordo factível neste momento, após dois anos de guerra. Professor de Política Internacional e apresentador do podcast Petit Journal, Tanguy explica como um ataque no Catar, em setembro, mudou os rumos da situação da guerra em Gaza. E responde se o atual acordo representa uma perspectiva de paz duradoura para a região.

Guest: Felipe Nunes, political scientist, professor at FGV-SP, and director of Quaest. From January, opinion polls indicated a downward trend in the president's approval. In Quaest's timeline of collected samples, the percentage of the population disapproving of Lula's administration exceeded the approval rate by 17 percentage points in May. A few months later, the scenario completely changed. In the Quaest survey published this Wednesday (8th), Lula's evaluation is in a technical tie for the first time in ten months. It is the continuation of a movement that gained traction with the discourse of national sovereignty, in the face of threats and tariffs imposed by Donald Trump, and strengthened with recent government victories in Congress, such as the approval of income tax exemption for those earning up to R$ 5,000. In this episode, political scientist Felipe Nunes, director of Quaest and professor at FGV-SP, analyzes the survey data and movements in Brasília's tectonic plates. In conversation with Natuza Nery, he explains Lula's recovery among specific groups – those earning more than 5 minimum wages, women, and voters in the Northeast – and points out the biggest challenges the Workers' Party member must face to be re-elected.

Convidados: Milena Serafim, Unicamp professor, Marcos Matos, Cecafé director. Café: poder, influência nacional. Século 19: economia transformada. República: "café com leite". Trump: política, diplomacia. Lula, Trump: produtos brasileiros, café brasileiro. Marcos Matos: importância, preço EUA. Realocação, Colômbia, México. Milena Serafim: cartão de visita, trunfo negociações.

Guests: Ricardo Abreu, TV Globo reporter, and Leonardo Trevisan, ESPM International Relations professor. Almost 30 minutes of conversation between Presidents Lula and Donald Trump this Monday morning. Weeks after the “chemistry” between the two at the UN meeting in New York, the presidents of Brazil and the US participated in a video conference call. Lula asked Trump to drop tariffs against products and lift sanctions on Brazilian authorities. For the Minister of Finance, Fernando Haddad, the conversation was positive. The Vice-President, Geraldo Alckmin, said he was optimistic about the end of tariffs. On the other side, reactions were also favorable. On a social network, Trump himself said that the conversation was very good, focused on economy and trade — and promised that meetings should happen "in the not too distant future". In conversation with Victor Boyadjian in this episode, TV Globo reporter Ricardo Abreu reports on the preparations for the conversation between Lula and Trump and what should happen from now on. "It's as if [...] once this face-to-face conversation is scheduled, the game resets,” he says. Ricardo reveals the reactions within Itamaraty after the meeting and the expectation for new negotiations between the two presidents. Later, Victor speaks with Leonardo Trevisan, professor of International Relations at ESPM. He explains what has changed in recent months since Trump imposed tariffs on Brazilian products. And he assesses what Marco Rubio's role will be in future negotiations. US Secretary of State, Trump has publicly advocated sanctions against governments aligned with the left. "Diplomacy is betting that now, with Trump's order, Rubio's stance may change," he says.

Guests: José Eduardo Cidade, president of the Brazilian Association of Distilled Beverages (ABBD), and Nívio Nascimento, researcher at the Public Security Forum. The recent wave of methanol poisoning has shed light on an old problem: the illegal beverage market. About 1/3 of the beverage market is dominated by illegal products, according to estimates by industry associations. A lucrative market that grows in the shadow of inspection, causing losses in tax collection and putting consumers' lives at risk. To understand the size of the problem, Natuza Nery talks with José Eduardo Cidade, president of the Brazilian Association of Distilled Beverages (ABBD). He explains how the illegal production chain works, why distilled beverages are more counterfeited than fermented ones (beer and wine), and what needs to be done to end this parallel market, which harms legal manufacturers and consumers. Later, Natuza talks with Nívio Nascimento, International Relations advisor at the Brazilian Public Security Forum. He recalls at what point organized crime began to see the illegal beverage market as a lucrative sector and measures that can be adopted to combat this type of crime.