As a film directly confronting the pandemic and lockdowns, Lou Ye's "An Unfinished Film" understandably failed to be released in China and lacked a Douban entry. However, people still saw the film in overseas cinemas and in secretly circulated online drives. Director Lou Ye once said that a film exists because it is seen by the audience. Recently, we invited listeners to write down their feelings after watching the film. Many people mentioned forgetting, memories awakened by the film, and crying and silence while watching. The film stirred up so many complex, profound, and heavy emotions because many memories have not been properly preserved, and much history has not been properly treated. These letters are not only viewing emotions but also our collective response and testimony to the three years of the pandemic and the era of silence. Thank you to the listeners for their sincere letters. With their consent, we have for the first time attempted to use AI to generate the listeners' voices. There are minor spoilers in the letters. Text version: https://bit.ly/bmb-158-text Related links: The netizen mentioned in the intro: https://www.threads.com/@yuengkong/post/DFgSs4FzmsN?xmt=AQF08byyeGOJ8fSrEF0wts7Tsp50wRizZce8PJHhvSTB2w EP-001 Murong Xuecun: Voices from Wuhan: https://bumingbai.net/2022/05/27/ep-001-murong-xuecun/

Original title: 《一部未完成的电影》——观众的沉默与泪水

Original description: <p>作为一部直面疫情与封控的电影，娄烨导演的《一部未完成的电影》理所当然地未能在中国上映，也未能拥有豆瓣条目。但人们还是在海外的影院、在隐秘流传的网盘里看到了这部电影。</p><br /><p>娄烨导演曾说，电影因为观众看到得以存在。最近，我们邀请听众朋友们写下观影后的感受。许多人在来信中提到遗忘、被电影唤醒的记忆、观影时候的哭泣与沉默。电影牵动了如此多复杂、幽深、厚重的情绪，因为有很多的记忆没有被好好保存，很多历史没有被好好对待。这些来信不仅是观影的情绪，更是我们一起对疫情三年、对失语时代的回应与见证。</p><br /><p>谢谢听众们的真诚来信，在征得同意后，我们首次尝试了用AI生成听众的声音。来信里有少量剧透。</p><br /><p>文字版：<a href="https://bit.ly/bmb-158-text" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/bmb-158-text</a></p><br /><p>相关链接：</p><p>intro里提到的<a href="https://www.threads.com/@yuengkong/post/DFgSs4FzmsN?xmt=AQF08byyeGOJ8fSrEF0wts7Tsp50wRizZce8PJHhvSTB2w" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">网友</a></p><p><a href="https://bumingbai.net/2022/05/27/ep-001-murong-xuecun/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">EP-001 慕容雪村：武汉传来的声音</a></p><hr /><p style="color: grey; font-size: 0.75em;"> Hosted on Acast. See <a href="https://acast.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="color: grey;" target="_blank">acast.com/privacy</a> for more information.</p>

Since the 1980s, over 800 million Chinese people have been lifted out of poverty. Hundreds of millions have moved from rural areas to cities, and tens of millions have become the first college students in their families. For many, it was an era full of opportunities for upward mobility. However, in recent years, with the economic slowdown, this channel for upward mobility has become increasingly narrow. We asked our listeners to submit stories of "feeling anxious about class solidification." In the previous episode, we heard two middle-aged people share how their lives struggled with the ups and downs of the economic situation. The three narrators in this episode are all born in the 90s. Boris saved money after working for 6 years to study for a postgraduate degree in Hong Kong. He wanted to get rid of the regret of his first academic qualification, but found that he had to face a more difficult employment environment than when he graduated from undergraduate. Liang, a student studying for a doctorate in Japan, calls himself an extreme case of social mobility. Josh, who graduated from a 211 university, like many young people, feels confused about his major, work, and future. What are their stories? How did the "small-town exam takers" who once firmly believed in "education changes destiny" reinterpret this sentence in the process of growing up? How do they view their situation? How to redefine "effort" and "hope"? We also have to think about where society will go if a generation of young people lose hope for the future? In addition, almost all of the letters collected this time came from male listeners. In the future, we look forward to hearing more voices from women. Text version: [https://bit.ly/bmb-157-text](https://bit.ly/bmb-157-text) **Timeline:** 02:09 Boris's self-introduction: Graduated in 2016, went to Hong Kong for postgraduate studies after working for 6 years 02:27 Comparison of the job search environment faced by the two graduations 07:31 339 resumes were sent out, with a response rate of 13% 08:13 Encountered absurd questions in the interview: academic discrimination, family background questioning 09:11 The job search period lasted 9 months, and both money and confidence suffered a double blow 11:31 Boris, as the child of laid-off workers, worked part-time at university 13:28 Mom canceled the school's text message notification to save 3 yuan 18:59 Motivation to move up: verbal stimulation from relatives, self-esteem, disappointment with vocational education 23:24 Believes he has benefited from gender and economic dividends, pessimistic about the future 27:45 Liang: "If you want to know where the limit of small-town exam takers is" 28:02 Born in a western state-owned enterprise family, felt increasingly strong class gap from elementary school to university 32:52 Entering university, the biggest challenge is "not knowing what to do" 35:22 Feels obvious unfairness, but is very proud of his achievements 36:58 Tutoring, distributing flyers, "doing whatever he can", graduated from university and saved money to go to Japan 39:54 Received an offer from Columbia University, was scared off by the high tuition fees, and chose to stay in Japan 41:25 Considers himself an extreme case of social mobility, and hardly contacts his elementary school classmates anymore 42:46 Self-taught Japanese, extremely low consumption, living an ascetic life 44:09 Future choice to stay in Japan 46:24 Josh: Born in a rural area in the south, his parents are migrant workers, and he started participating in family labor in childhood 48:01 Disappointment after going to university: utilitarian atmosphere, dislike of major 48:53 The first job only lasted half a year, resigned to take the postgraduate entrance examination 50:42 Father tried to spend money to ask for favors to find him a job 52:05 Spent 20,000 yuan to sign up for a re-employment training class 54:13 Found a new job, but resigned again soon due to "high pressure" 01:02:16 Started feeling the gap from student days, high school classmates had early access to the external network and learned programming 01:03:22 Being a civil servant, doing business, joining a big company, it is difficult to turn over no matter what you do 01:05:54 Josh's imagination of the future: unwilling to marry and have children in the future Related links: [https://bumingbai.net/2025/06/22/ep-156-jiecengguhua/](https://bumingbai.net/2025/06/22/ep-156-jiecengguhua/) [https://bumingbai.net/2024/09/28/ep-115-jiuye/](https://bumingbai.net/2024/09/28/ep-115-jiuye/) Hosted on Acast. See [acast.com/privacy](https://acast.com/privacy) for more information.

Original title: 在阶层固化中挣扎的小镇做题家（下）

Original description: <p>上世纪80年代以来，超过8亿中国人摆脱了贫困。几亿人从农村搬进了城市，数以千万计的人成为家里的第一个大学生。对于不少人来说，那是一个充满上升通道的时代。但近几年，随着经济放缓，这种向上流动的通道越来越窄。</p><br /><p>我们向听众征集了“对阶层固化感到焦虑”的故事。上一期节目里，我们听到了两位中年人分享了他们的人生如何随着经济形势起伏而苦苦挣扎。</p><br /><p>这一期节目里的三位讲述者都是90后，Boris在工作6年之后攒钱去香港念研究生，他想摆脱第一学历的遗憾，却发现要面对比本科毕业时更艰难的就业环境；在日本念博士的梁同学自称社会流动里的极端个案；毕业于211大学的Josh和许多年轻人一样，对专业、工作和未来都感到迷茫。</p><br /><p>他们的故事是怎么样的？曾经笃行的“教育改变命运”的小镇做题家们，如何在成长过程中重新理解了这句话？他们怎么看待自己的处境？如何重新定义“努力”与“希望”？我们也不得不思考，如果一代年轻人都对未来失去希望，社会会走向何方？</p><br /><p>另外，这一次征集的来信几乎全部来自男性听众。未来，我们期待能听到更多女性的声音。</p><br /><p>文字版：<a href="https://bit.ly/bmb-157-text" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/bmb-157-text</a></p><br /><p><strong>时间轴：</strong></p><p>02:09 Boris的自我介绍：2016年毕业，工作6年后赴港读研</p><p>02:27 两次毕业所面临的求职环境对比</p><p>07:31 海投了339份简历，响应率13%</p><p>08:13 面试中遇到荒诞问题：学历歧视、家庭背景盘问</p><p>09:11 求职期长达9个月，金钱信心遭受双重打击</p><p>11:31 Boris作为下岗工人子女，大学勤工俭学</p><p>13:28 妈妈为了省下3块钱，取消了学校短信通知</p><p>18:59 向上走的动力：亲人言语刺激、自尊心、对职业教育的失望</p><p>23:24 自认吃到了性别红利和经济红利，对未来悲观</p><br /><p>27:45 梁同学： “如果你想知道小镇做题家的极限在哪里”</p><p>28:02 出生于西部国企家庭，从小学到大学，感受到逐渐强烈的阶级落差</p><p>32:52 进入大学，最大的挑战是“不知道做什么”</p><p>35:22 感受到明显的不公平，但很为自己取得的成绩感到自豪</p><p>36:58 做家教、发传单、“有什么做什么”，大学毕业，自己攒钱去日本</p><p>39:54 拿到哥伦比亚大学offer，被高昂学费吓退，选择留在日本</p><p>41:25 自认为是社会流动中的极端个案，和小学同学几乎不再联系</p><p>42:46 自学日语、极低消费，过苦行僧式的生活</p><p>44:09 未来选择留在日本</p><br /><p>46:24 Josh：南方农村出生，父母是农民工，童年开始参与家庭劳动</p><p>48:01 上大学后的失落：功利氛围，不喜欢专业</p><p>48:53 第一份工作只做了半年，辞职考研</p><p>50:42 父亲试图花钱托关系为他找工作</p><p>52:05 花费2万元报名再就业培训班</p><p>54:13 重新找工作，因“高压”很快再离职</p><p>01:02:16 从学生时代开始感受差距，高中同学早早接触外网、学习编程</p><p>01:03:22 做公务员、做生意、进大公司，无论做什么都很难再翻身</p><p>01:05:54 Josh对未来的想象：未来不愿意结婚生子</p><br /><p>相关链接：</p><p><a href="https://bumingbai.net/2025/06/22/ep-156-jiecengguhua/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">EP-156 在阶层固化中挣扎的人们（上）</a></p><p><a href="https://bumingbai.net/2024/09/28/ep-115-jiuye/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">EP-115 中国高校就业数据如何造假？</a></p><hr /><p style="color: grey; font-size: 0.75em;"> Hosted on Acast. See <a href="https://acast.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="color: grey;" target="_blank">acast.com/privacy</a> for more information.</p>

We recently solicited stories from listeners about "feeling anxious about class solidification" and received many letters. This episode is the first, with guests Mr. Zhao, 38, and Mr. Liu, who is almost 50. They, who did not attend university, experienced a little of the economic boom at different stages when they were young. However, after the epidemic, the overall social economy has been in a slump, the real estate industry has been in turmoil, the labor market has been sluggish, and especially the jobs for older workers have decreased, and they have all begun to feel a sense of stagnation or even regression. Mr. Zhao is from a rural area in Shanxi. He used to be an underground miner. Later, he drifted north and worked as an extra, real estate agent, and loan business in Beijing. He used to have a considerable monthly income, but in the past two years, his income has been almost zero due to the decline of the industry. Mr. Liu used to work in engineering construction in a large state-owned enterprise in Northeast China. He personally experienced the wave of layoffs in the 1990s, and later worked all over the country. At nearly 50 years old, he faces a life of being owed wages, difficulty finding work, and no place to retire. In this episode, we will hear the stories of ordinary workers and their different feelings about "social mobility" and "class solidification." Text version: https://bit.ly/bmb-156-text Timeline: 01:34 Mr. Zhao is from a rural area in Shanxi, and his father is a coal miner in a black coal mine. 02:32 The first job at the age of 18, a gas worker in a coal mine, with a harsh underground environment 06:24 Resigned and drifted north, going to Beijing with a performance dream 07:21 Studied acting at the Central Academy of Drama and worked as an extra 09:08 Switched to being a real estate agent, "feeling very decent to make money" 11:18 Switched to being a loan agent, earning 100,000 yuan a month at its peak 12:28 After 2024, business decreased and income plummeted 14:19 Considered delivering food and returning to work in coal mines 15:41 "Unable to rise, and difficult to sink" 18:35 If there are children, I hope they have a good environment and a good personality. 21:10 Thinking about whether to leave Beijing 22:24 Mr. Liu: Writing from a hot rental house 23:32 When he was young, he was an employee of a state-owned enterprise. He originally hoped to live a stable life in the state-owned enterprise until retirement. 24:42 Laid off from state-owned enterprises, went out to work 26:17 During the epidemic, the project was suspended and he lay flat at home for a year. 28:03 Comparing the "layoff wave" with the present: I was confident in finding a job back then, but now I am more pessimistic. 29:27 Employment deteriorated after the epidemic, "feeling of powerlessness" 31:32 Expectations for children: "In short, if you want to be a beast of burden, it is better to be a beast of burden abroad." 39:21 Owed five months of wages, no savings, and no place to retire Related links: EP-115 How is China's college employment data falsified? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Original title: 在阶层固化中挣扎的人们（上）

Original description: <p>&nbsp;最近我们向听众征集“对阶级固化感到焦虑”的故事，收到了许多来信。本期节目是第一期，嘉宾分别是38岁的赵先生和即将50岁的刘先生。没有上过大学的他们，年轻时曾在不同阶段感受过一点点经济上行期的红利。但疫情之后，整体社会经济一蹶不振，房地产暴雷，劳动市场萎靡，尤其是面向大龄劳动者的工作变少，他们都开始感到一种停滞甚至倒退。</p><br /><p>赵先生来自山西农村，曾做过井下矿工，之后北漂，在北京做过群众演员、房地产中介、贷款行业，曾月入可观，但近两年因行业衰退几乎没有收入。刘先生早年在东北大型国企做工程建设，亲历过90年代下岗潮，后来一直在全国各地辗转打工。快50岁的他面对着被欠薪、工作难找和养老无着落的人生。</p><br /><p>在这期节目里，我们会听到普通劳动者的故事以及他们对“社会流动”与“阶层固化”的不同感受。</p><br /><p>文字版：<a href="https://bit.ly/bmb-156-text" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/bmb-156-text</a></p><br /><p><strong>时间轴：</strong></p><p>01:34 赵先生来自山西农村，父亲是黑煤窑矿工</p><p>02:32 18岁的第一份工作，煤矿瓦斯工，下井环境恶劣</p><p>06:24 辞职北漂，带着表演梦去北京</p><p>07:21 在中戏学表演，做过群众演员</p><p>09:08 转行做房地产中介，“感觉挣钱非常体面”</p><p>11:18 转行做贷款中介，辉煌时月入十万</p><p>12:28 2024年之后业务减少，收入骤减</p><p>14:19 考虑过送外卖、回煤矿工作</p><p>15:41 “无法跃升，也难以沉下去”</p><p>18:35 如果有孩子，希望有好的环境，塑造好的人格</p><p>21:10 思考是否要离开北京</p><p>22:24 刘先生：在高温的出租房里来信</p><p>23:32 年轻时是国企员工，原本希望在国企稳定生活直到退休</p><p>24:42 国企下岗分流，外出打工</p><p>26:17 疫情期间项目停工，回家躺平了一年</p><p>28:03 对比“下岗潮”与现在时：当年还有信心找工作，现在更悲观</p><p>29:27 疫情后就业恶化，“无力感”</p><p>31:32 给孩子的期望：“总之要做牛马，不如去国外做牛马”</p><p>39:21 被欠薪五个月，没有积蓄，养老无着落</p><br /><p>相关链接：</p><p><a href="https://bumingbai.net/2024/09/28/ep-115-jiuye/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">EP-115 中国高校就业数据如何造假？</a></p><hr /><p style="color: grey; font-size: 0.75em;"> Hosted on Acast. See <a href="https://acast.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="color: grey;" target="_blank">acast.com/privacy</a> for more information.</p>

中国官方一直在塑造这样一种希望：中国制造的“新三样”——电动汽车、锂电池和太阳能电池，正在成为拉动中国经济的新引擎。今年，国产大语言模型 DeepSeek 横空出世，让很多人重新找回了一种民族科技和文化的信心。 另一个中国里，却是截然不同的景象：欠薪事件频发，失业问题严重，消费疲软，社会保障不足，地方债务危机加重，年轻人因失去希望而不愿结婚生子…… 为什么“两个中国”同时存在？技术突破和产业升级，为什么没有变成普通人的“好日子”？本期节目，袁莉和李厚辰一起谈论，为什么“新三样”和AI救不了中国经济？ 李厚辰是「翻转电台」和 YouTube频道「世界苦茶」的主持人，也是一位时事和经济分析专栏作家，他带来了他对中国经济现象的分析和观察，例如科创表面蓬勃，背后却是风投和民间投资的逐年萎靡；华为等大公司总是为了“国家安全”在重复发明；被誉为希望的电动汽车产业实际上饱受价格战和产能过剩之累……袁莉则带来她常年对科技和商业领域的采访观察。欢迎收听本期节目。 **文字版：**https://bit.ly/bmb-155-text **时间轴：** 01:57 “中国的经济就像吃了兴奋剂的人”，局部繁荣难以掩盖系统性萧条 06:56 中国经济中的资源如何错配？ 08:29 合肥模式与产业投资泡沫 11:38 风投行业这么萎靡，这么多初创企业从哪儿来的？ 14:48 大公司科创困境：为了国家安全重复发明“轮子” 20:46 中国企业“战术上勤奋，战略上懒惰”？ 22:35 价格战 、产能过剩、毛利降低：电动车行业即将暴雷？ 28:31 新三样在国际贸易中真的那么如鱼得水吗？ 33:52 为什么新质生产力无法拯救经济疲软？ 35:31 出口补贴越高，财政税收拖累越严重 38:30 “比亚迪过去五年净利润940亿，从政府拿了860亿现金补贴” 41:32 新质生产力靠国家巨额补贴推动，并非市场行为 42:49 AI提升生产力的同时也制造更多失业 48:46 为什么中国政府如此痴迷新质生产力？ 57:23 嘉宾推荐 嘉宾推荐： 黄道炫《铁水流：战时中共革命系统的运作（1937-1945）》 《台灣地方政治讀本: 來自青年世代的提問、實踐與反思》 Harukata Takenaka《Failed Democratization in Prewar Japan》 相关链接： EP-132 李厚辰：2015、2016——改变中国的两年 YouTube频道：FearNation世界苦茶

Original title: 李厚辰：为什么“新三样”和AI救不了中国经济？

Original description: <p>中国官方一直在塑造这样一种希望：中国制造的“新三样”——电动汽车、锂电池和太阳能电池，正在成为拉动中国经济的新引擎。今年，国产大语言模型 DeepSeek 横空出世，让很多人重新找回了一种民族科技和文化的信心。</p><br /><p>另一个中国里，却是截然不同的景象：欠薪事件频发，失业问题严重，消费疲软，社会保障不足，地方债务危机加重，年轻人因失去希望而不愿结婚生子……</p><br /><p>为什么“两个中国”同时存在？技术突破和产业升级，为什么没有变成普通人的“好日子”？本期节目，袁莉和李厚辰一起谈论，为什么“新三样”和AI救不了中国经济？</p><br /><p>李厚辰是「翻转电台」和 YouTube频道「世界苦茶」的主持人，也是一位时事和经济分析专栏作家，他带来了他对中国经济现象的分析和观察，例如科创表面蓬勃，背后却是风投和民间投资的逐年萎靡；华为等大公司总是为了“国家安全”在重复发明；被誉为希望的电动汽车产业实际上饱受价格战和产能过剩之累……袁莉则带来她常年对科技和商业领域的采访观察。欢迎收听本期节目。</p><br /><p><strong>文字版：</strong><a href="https://bit.ly/bmb-155-text" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/bmb-155-text</a></p><br /><p><strong>时间轴：</strong></p><br /><p>01:57 “中国的经济就像吃了兴奋剂的人”，局部繁荣难以掩盖系统性萧条</p><p>06:56 中国经济中的资源如何错配？</p><p>08:29 合肥模式与产业投资泡沫</p><p>11:38 风投行业这么萎靡，这么多初创企业从哪儿来的？</p><p>14:48 大公司科创困境：为了国家安全重复发明“轮子”</p><p>20:46 中国企业“战术上勤奋，战略上懒惰”？</p><p>22:35 价格战 、产能过剩、毛利降低：电动车行业即将暴雷？</p><p>28:31 新三样在国际贸易中真的那么如鱼得水吗？</p><p>33:52 为什么新质生产力无法拯救经济疲软？</p><p>35:31 出口补贴越高，财政税收拖累越严重</p><p>38:30 “比亚迪过去五年净利润940亿，从政府拿了860亿现金补贴”</p><p>41:32 新质生产力靠国家巨额补贴推动，并非市场行为</p><p>42:49 AI提升生产力的同时也制造更多失业</p><p>48:46 为什么中国政府如此痴迷新质生产力？</p><p>57:23 嘉宾推荐</p><br /><p>嘉宾推荐：</p><p><a href="https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/%E9%BB%83%E9%81%93%E7%82%AB/dp/988237316X" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">黄道炫《铁水流：战时中共革命系统的运作（1937-1945）》</a></p><p><a href="https://www.amazon.com/-/zh_TW/%E5%9A%B4%E5%A9%89%E7%8E%B2-ebook/dp/B0CF144NZL" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">《台灣地方政治讀本: 來自青年世代的提問、實踐與反思》</a></p><p><a href="https://www.sup.org/books/politics/failed-democratization-prewar-japan" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Harukata Takenaka《Failed Democratization in Prewar Japan》</a></p><br /><p>相关链接：</p><p><a href="https://bumingbai.net/2025/01/18/ep-132-lihouchen/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">EP-132 李厚辰：2015、2016——改变中国的两年</a></p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/@flipradio_fearnation" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">YouTube频道：FearNation世界苦茶</a></p><hr /><p style="color: grey; font-size: 0.75em;"> Hosted on Acast. See <a href="https://acast.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="color: grey;" target="_blank">acast.com/privacy</a> for more information.</p>

In 2020, Professor Michael Berry of UCLA became the target of online attacks for translating "Wuhan Diary." The cyberbullying lasted for nearly three years, and he even frequently received death threats. Writer Fang Fang also suffered heavy losses. Her works cannot be published or reprinted, and even her name has almost disappeared from public space. Against this background, Michael Berry picked up Fang Fang's two novel manuscripts again. "Soft Burial" tells the story of individual destiny in the devastating land reform movement, and "The Running Flame" depicts the story of a rural woman resisting domestic violence. This year, these two works were finally published in the English-speaking world. In this podcast, Professor Michael Berry will talk to us about the process of translating these two works and the impact of cyberbullying. Michael Berry lists "Wuhan Diary," "Soft Burial," and "The Running Flame" as his "trauma trilogy": how do land reform, the epidemic, and domestic violence bring trauma to ordinary people and affect their lives? How should people deal with and face historical trauma? Do we still have the ability and opportunity to tell these historical traumas? Welcome to listen to this podcast. **Text version**: [https://bit.ly/bmb-154-text](https://bit.ly/bmb-154-text) **Timeline:** 01:38 Recalling the online violence after the publication of "Wuhan Diary": spy rumors, political cartoons, death threats 07:12 Fang Fang went from "People's Hero" to "Public Enemy": how the object of criticism was reversed overnight 11:59 Is there an organization behind the reversal of public opinion? 14:15 "Handing over the knife" becomes a watershed in the public space of public opinion 19:04 Hoping Fang Fang to take back the "writing" weapon: she was almost "banned" after the cyberbullying 23:33 Michael Berry's "trauma trilogy" 31:22 Facing historical trauma: the choice of novel characters 34:17 Teaching students to "dare to speak" for many years, but now I can only ask them to "protect themselves wisely" 40:06 The era of drawer literature 44:30 Talking about "The Running Flame": how to let Western readers understand the story of Chinese rural women 45:35 Challenges beyond censorship: fewer and fewer readers of novels in the fragmented era 46:06 Will the translator who once spent 15 years translating experimental novels worry about AI? 50:05 The process of getting out of cyberbullying is difficult, but the feelings for ordinary Chinese people have never changed 53:54 Guest recommendation Guest recommendation: [Movie "Ash is Purest White" Jia Zhangke/Wan Jiahuan](https://movie.douban.com/subject/36289263/) ["Crocodile" Mo Yan](https://book.douban.com/subject/36398795/) Related links: ["Soft Burial"](https://cup.columbia.edu/book/soft-burial/9780231214995/) ["The Running Flame"](https://cup.columbia.edu/book/the-running-flame/9780231215015/) Hosted on Acast. See [acast.com/privacy](https://acast.com/privacy) for more information.

Original title: 白睿文：从方方日记到《软埋》，为历史还个公道

Original description: <p>2020年，因为翻译《武汉日记》，加州大学洛杉矶分校的白睿文（Michael Berry）教授成为网络攻击的对象。网暴持续了将近三年，他甚至经常收到死亡威胁。作家方方同样遭受重创。她的作品无法出版、再版，连她的名字都几乎从公共空间消失。</p><br /><p>在这样的背景下，白睿文重新拾起方方的两部小说译稿。《软埋》讲述在灭绝人寰的土改运动中个人的命运，《奔跑的火光》描写一位农村女性反抗家暴的故事。今年，这两部作品终于在英文世界出版。</p><br /><p>这一期播客，白睿文教授来跟我们讲述他翻译这两部作品的过程，以及网暴带来的冲击。白睿文将《武汉日记》《软埋》和《奔跑的火光》列为他心目中的“创伤三部曲”：土地改革、疫情、家暴，不同的事件如何给普通人带来创伤，并影响他们的一生？人们又应该如何处理和面对历史创伤？我们是否还有能力和机会讲出这些历史创伤？欢迎收听本期播客。</p><br /><p><strong>文字版</strong>：<a href="https://bit.ly/bmb-154-text" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/bmb-154-text</a></p><br /><p><strong>时间轴：</strong></p><br /><p>01:38 回忆《武汉日记》出版后遭遇的网络暴力：间谍谣言、政治漫画、死亡威胁</p><p>07:12 方方从“人民英雄”变成“大家的公敌”：批评对象如何在一夜之间被调转</p><p>11:59 舆论调转背后是否有组织？</p><p>14:15 “递刀子”成为舆论公共空间的分水岭</p><p>19:04 希望方方拿回”写作“武器：网暴后她几乎被“封杀”</p><p>23:33 白睿文心目中的“创伤三部曲”</p><p>31:22 面对历史创伤：小说人物的选择</p><p>34:17 多年来教学生“敢讲”，眼下却只能请他们“明哲保身”</p><p>40:06 抽屉文学的时代</p><p>44:30 谈《奔跑的火光》：如何让西方读者理解中国农村女性的故事</p><p>45:35 审查之外的挑战：长篇小说的读者在碎片化时代里越来越少</p><p>46:06 曾经花费15年翻译实验性小说的译者，会担心AI吗？</p><p>50:05 走出网暴的过程很艰难，但对普通中国人的情感始终没有变</p><p>53:54 嘉宾推荐</p><br /><p>嘉宾推荐：</p><p><a href="https://movie.douban.com/subject/36289263/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">电影《风流一代》贾樟柯/万佳欢</a></p><p><a href="https://book.douban.com/subject/36398795/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">《鳄鱼》莫言</a></p><br /><p>相关链接：</p><p><a href="https://cup.columbia.edu/book/soft-burial/9780231214995/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">《Soft Burial》（《软埋》</a></p><p><a href="https://cup.columbia.edu/book/the-running-flame/9780231215015/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">《The Running Flame》（《奔跑的火光》）</a></p><hr /><p style="color: grey; font-size: 0.75em;"> Hosted on Acast. See <a href="https://acast.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="color: grey;" target="_blank">acast.com/privacy</a> for more information.</p>

Why would a person who has suffered torment and hardship remain loyal to the party that caused them immense suffering? This may be one of the core issues in understanding Chinese politics. Joseph Torigian, Associate Professor at American University, describes the ups and downs of Xi Zhongxun's life in his forthcoming book, "The Party's Interests Come First," through detailed historical materials. Xi Zhongxun is not only Xi Jinping's father, but also one of the most complex and tragic representatives of the CCP elders. Writing and understanding a complex communist figure is undoubtedly very difficult. How does Tang Zhixue find important clues from the vast and opaque historical materials of the party? How to judge and select these materials? Tang Zhixue also talked about the responsibility and significance of being a historian. The purpose of writing this book is not to judge whether Xi Zhongxun is "good" or "bad", but to tell what kind of system this person lives in? How does this system shape and devour individuals? Perhaps many listeners are more concerned about: Can understanding Xi Zhongxun's life help understand Xi Jinping's ruling logic? Why did Xi Jinping become who he is today? How do historical, family, and personal factors shape him? Is the path he takes an inheritance or betrayal of his father, Xi Zhongxun? Where will he take China? Welcome to listen to this podcast. Text version: https://bit.ly/bmb-153-text Timeline: 03:51 Why did Tang Zhixue write "Biography of Xi Zhongxun"? 07:36 How to select historical materials and the precious experience of interviewing the Dalai Lama 11:26 The Yan'an Rectification Movement and Xi Zhongxun's "absurd and terrifying" actions 15:03 Why was Xi Zhongxun promoted so quickly? 17:17 In united front work, true friendship VS political friendship 21:19 Why does Xi Zhongxun always end up on the leftist or tough line? 24:52 Why do CCP leaders implement bad policies to please Mao Zedong? 28:17 One of Xi Zhongxun's tragic moments: the publication of the anti-party novel "Liu Zhidan" 31:26 Xi Zhongxun's mental state: constant crying 33:13 How did Xi Zhongxun educate Xi Jinping? 38:35 Xi Zhongxun said that Xi Jinping is the material to be a premier 39:58 What role did Xi Zhongxun play in Xi Jinping's career? 44:58 Why didn't Xi Jinping grow into a reformer? 48:33 How to understand the many labels on Xi Zhongxun? 51:38 When did Xi Jinping become Xi Jinping? 55:38 Xi Jinping's worldview: succession politics and self-revolution 01:05:26 Guest recommendation Tang Zhixue #Guest recommendation: Hipsters Zhong Yanlin: Peng Zhen: Mao Zedong's "Close Comrade-in-Arms" (1941-1966) Jiang Guangci: The Wandering Youth Related podcast links: EP-033 Joseph Torigian: The End and Succession of Dictators EP116-Cai Xia: Can Xi Jinping restore Mao-style socialism? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Original title: 唐志学：习近平何以成为习近平，习仲勋传里有答案吗？

Original description: <p>为什么一个受尽折磨和苦难的人仍然会衷心于给他带来巨大苦难的党？这也许是理解中国政治的核心问题之一。美利坚大学副教授唐志学Joseph Torigian在即将出版的新书《The Party’s Interests Come First》（党的利益在第一位）中通过翔实的史料描写了习仲勋跌宕起伏的一生。</p><br /><p>习仲勋不仅是习近平的父亲，也是中共元老中最复杂、最悲剧的代表之一。书写和理解一个复杂的共产党人物，无疑是非常困难的，唐志学如何从庞杂的、并不透明的党史资料中找到重要的线头？如何判断和选取这些资料？唐志学也谈到作为历史学家的责任和意义，他写这本书，目的并不在于判断习仲勋是“好”是“坏”，而是讲述这个人究竟生活在一个什么样的体制里？这个体制又是如何塑造和吞噬个人的？</p><br /><p>也许许多听众更关心的是：理解习仲勋的一生，可以理解习近平的执政逻辑吗？习近平为何会成为今天的习近平，历史、家庭和个人的因素如何塑造他？他所走的路，是对父亲习仲勋的继承还是背叛？他会将中国推向何方？欢迎收听本期播客。</p><br /><p>文字版：<a href="https://bit.ly/bmb-153-text" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/bmb-153-text</a></p><br /><p><strong>时间轴：</strong></p><p>03:51 为什么唐志学要写“习仲勋传”</p><p>07:36 如何选取史料、采访达赖喇嘛的珍贵经历</p><p>11:26 延安整风运动与习仲勋“荒诞又恐怖”的作为</p><p>15:03 习仲勋为什么被提拔得这么快？</p><p>17:17 统战工作中，真实的友谊VS政治的友谊</p><p>21:19 习仲勋为何总在最后走到左倾或强硬的路线之中？</p><p>24:52 中共领导人为什么要为了讨好毛泽东而实施糟糕的政策?</p><p>28:17 习仲勋的悲剧时刻之一：反党小说《刘志丹》的出版</p><p>31:26 习仲勋的精神状态：常年的哭声</p><p>33:13 习仲勋如何教育习近平？</p><p>38:35 习仲勋说，习近平是做总理的料</p><p>39:58 习仲勋在习近平的仕途中发挥了什么作用？</p><p>44:58 习近平为何没有成长为一个改革派？</p><p>48:33 如何理解习仲勋身上的诸多标签？</p><p>51:38 习近平何时变成习近平？</p><p>55:38 习近平的世界观：接班政治与自我革命</p><p>01:05:26 嘉宾推荐</p><br /><p>唐志学 #嘉宾推荐：</p><p><a href="https://movie.douban.com/subject/3260445/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">《潮爆莫斯科》（Hipsters）</a></p><p><a href="https://bit.ly/43RxiIF" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">钟延麟：《彭真：毛泽东的“亲密战友”（1941-1966）》</a></p><p><a href="https://book.douban.com/subject/35439520/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">蒋光慈：《少年漂泊者》</a></p><br /><p>相关播客链接：</p><p><a href="https://bumingbai.net/2023/01/14/ep-033-joseph-torigian/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">EP-033 唐志学：独裁者的终局与继承</a></p><p><a href="https://bumingbai.net/2024/10/12/ep-116-caixia/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">EP116-蔡霞：习近平能否复辟毛式社会主义？</a></p><hr /><p style="color: grey; font-size: 0.75em;"> Hosted on Acast. See <a href="https://acast.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="color: grey;" target="_blank">acast.com/privacy</a> for more information.</p>

Today is May 27th, Unclear Podcast's third anniversary! Recently, we solicited letters from listeners, hoping everyone would write down the most painful and happiest things of the past three years, the biggest changes in life, and stories with Unclear Podcast. We received letters from all over the world, bringing everyone's migration trajectories and changes in mood. Thank you for reviewing the past hundred-plus episodes and everything we've experienced together over the past three years, from the Shanghai lockdown three years ago to this moment. These experiences are the most inseparable part of us and this country, and at different moments, they have pushed us to different places. Thank you to every listener for the past three years, and we hope we can go through many more third anniversaries together! Text version: https://bit.ly/bmb-152-text

Original title: 三周年特别节目：和袁莉一起读信！

Original description: <p>今天是5月27日，不明白播客开播三周年啦！前阵子，我们征集了听众的来信，希望大家写下过去三年最痛苦和最快乐的事情、生活中最大的变化以及和不明白播客的故事。</p><br /><p>我们收到了从世界各地来的信件，也带来大家迁徙的轨迹和心境的变化。谢谢大家一起回顾了过去的一百多期节目和三年共同经历的一切，从三年前的上海封控到此刻，这些经历是我们和这个国家最不可分割的一部分，也在不同的时刻，把我们推向了不同的地方。</p><br /><p>感谢三年来的每一位听众，希望我们还能一起走过很多个三周年！</p><br /><p>文字版：<a href="https://bit.ly/bmb-152-text" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/bmb-152-text&nbsp;</a></p><hr /><p style="color: grey; font-size: 0.75em;"> Hosted on Acast. See <a href="https://acast.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="color: grey;" target="_blank">acast.com/privacy</a> for more information.</p>

In mid-May, negotiations between the United States and China in Geneva paused a chaotic and intense trade war that had lasted for more than a month. However, this does not mean that the shadow of the economic crisis has receded.Two years ago, Professor Victor Shih of the University of California, San Diego, pointed out China's local debt crisis in our program. Two years later, is China's local debt problem more serious? With exports, a driving force for economic growth, potentially facing a decline, how will the trade war further affect China's central and local finances? Could the trade war trigger a financial crisis in China?Victor Shih also shared in the program the "accounting games" China is currently using to deal with local debt problems, what preparations the Chinese government made before the new round of trade war, and how he views the relationship between the winners and losers of the trade war at the national level and ordinary people. Welcome to listen to this episode.Text version: https://bit.ly/bmb-151-textTimeline:01:58 Victor Shih comments on the first round of the Sino-US trade war05:09 How does the Chinese government deal with corporate bankruptcies and large-scale unemployment caused by the trade war?07:14 The impact of current tariff levels on China's GDP growth10:17 "Fiscal pressure may be the only pressure the trade war puts on the Chinese government"14:47 Will fiscal pressure affect the stability maintenance capabilities of local governments?15:33 Two years later, what are the overall changes in the situation of local debt?18:13 After the trade war, which provinces in China are likely to have a more serious debt crisis?23:24 Does the Chinese government tacitly approve the decline of traditional service industries and only care about AI?25:22 The relationship between China's local debt problem and ordinary people30:43 What is the logic of the CCP's economic policy?33:12 The dual challenges of weak domestic demand and higher tariffs36:43 Will the trade war be a long-term situation?41:28 When China's economic data becomes increasingly opaque, how do economists judge?46:17 Guest recommendationsGuest recommendations:Film "Conclave" by Edward Berger"Rejuvenating Communism" by Jérôme Doyon"THE IMPACT OF U.S.-CHINA TENSIONS ON U.S. SCIENCE"Related links:EP-035 Victor Shih: Will Local Debt Drag Down the Chinese Economy?EP-149 Xu Chenggang: Where Will the Sino-US Trade War Go?"A 10 Trillion RMB Accounting Exercise" Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Original title: Victor Shih：贸易战会引发中国的财政危机吗？

Original description: <p>5月中旬，中美两国在日内瓦的谈判，为一个多月来混乱、激烈的贸易战按下暂停键。但这并不意味着经济危机的阴影已经远去。</p><br /><p>两年前，加州大学圣地亚哥分校教授Victor Shih曾经在我们的节目中指出过中国的地方债务危机。两年之后，中国的地方债问题是否更严峻了？在作为经济增长动力的出口可能面临下滑的背景下，贸易战会如何进一步影响中国的中央财政与地方财政？贸易战可能会引发中国的财政危机吗？</p><br /><p>Victor Shih也在节目中分享了，中国当前处理地方债务问题的“会计游戏”，中国政府在新一轮贸易战发生前做了哪些准备，以及他如何看待贸易战在国家层面的输赢与普通人的关系。欢迎收听本期节目。</p><br /><p>文字版：<a href="https://bit.ly/bmb-151-text" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/bmb-151-text</a></p><br /><p><strong>时间轴：</strong></p><p>01:58 Victor Shih评价中美贸易战的第一回合</p><p>05:09 中国政府如何应对贸易战带来的企业破产与大规模失业？</p><p>07:14 当前关税水平对中国GDP增长的影响</p><p>10:17 “财政压力可能是贸易战对中国政府产生的唯一压力”</p><p>14:47 财政压力会影响地方政府的维稳能力吗？</p><p>15:33 两年过去了，地方债的整体情况有什么变化？</p><p>18:13 贸易战之后，中国哪些省份的债务危机可能更严重？</p><p>23:24 中国政府默许传统服务业衰退、只关心AI？</p><p>25:22 中国地方债问题和普通人之间的关系</p><p>30:43 中共经济政策的逻辑是什么？</p><p>33:12 国内需求疲软和更高关税带来的双重挑战</p><p>36:43 贸易战会是一个长期的状况吗？</p><p>41:28 当中国的经济数据越来越不透明，经济学家如何判断？</p><p>46:17 嘉宾推荐</p><br /><p><strong>嘉宾推荐：</strong></p><p><a href="https://movie.douban.com/subject/35948807/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">电影《秘密会议》（《Conclave》）爱德华·贝尔格</a></p><p><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Rejuvenating-Communism-Organizations-Post-Mao-Understandings/dp/0472075578" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">《Rejuvenating Communism》Jérôme Doyon</a></p><p><a href="https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w29941/w29941.pdf" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">《THE IMPACT OF U.S.-CHINA TENSIONS ON U.S. SCIENCE》</a></p><br /><p><strong>相关链接：</strong></p><p><a href="https://bumingbai.net/2023/02/04/ep-35-victor-shih-on-local-debt/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">EP-035 Victor Shih：地方债会拖垮中国经济吗？</a></p><p><a href="https://bumingbai.net/2025/05/05/ep-149-xuchenggang/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">EP-149 许成钢：中美贸易战会走向何方？</a></p><p><a href="https://carnegieendowment.org/posts/2024/11/a-10-trillion-rmb-accounting-exercise?lang=en" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">《A 10 Trillion RMB Accounting Exercise》</a></p><hr /><p style="color: grey; font-size: 0.75em;"> Hosted on Acast. See <a href="https://acast.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="color: grey;" target="_blank">acast.com/privacy</a> for more information.</p>

Starting February this year, Teacher Li launched 611Study.ICU and NiuMa.ICU projects through X account "Teacher Li Isn't Teacher Li", the former focusing on "excessive studying" of primary and secondary school students, the latter focusing on "excessive working" of laborers. By early May, these two projects received over 9,000 submissions, including student submissions from over 4,000 schools, and the most direct protests and outcries from workers about involution. Why launch these two projects? Which submissions impressed Teacher Li, and what reality do they reflect? What does Teacher Li, who has been questioned after releasing Li coins, want to say? Is it still possible for us to influence China from overseas? In this conversation, Teacher Li answered questions about the projects themselves, the reality of involution in China, Li coins, and views on action. After the White Paper Movement, Teacher Li's life underwent earth-shaking changes. He believes he is just a blogger, but the reality is that he is regarded as an "opposition" and encounters transnational repression. In the past two years, he has had more thoughts on action. He regards these two projects as an attempt, "no longer just passively accepting and presenting submissions, but I can also actively set the agenda and let the CCP respond." In addition, the Bumingbai podcast is about to celebrate its third anniversary. We continue to solicit letters from listeners, which we will produce into an episode later. You are welcome to send letters to [email protected], or fill out our form: https://bit.ly/bmb-collect-01 Text version: https://bit.ly/bmb-150-text Timeline 03:19 Why focus on "excessive studying" and "excessive working"? 07:22 Submissions from more than 4,000 schools, "the number of people who circumvent the firewall is more than we imagined" 10:50 Average of 95 hours of school per week, 44% of schools have had student suicides 14:29 Teacher Li's teaching past: "Don't let children have their own ideas" 18:30 A child who is always traumatized in the family is the real nightmare 21:36 Major factories restricting overtime became a trending topic, "doesn't this just illustrate the problem?" 22:14 The most bizarre submission: a voice from the United Front Work Department of Karamay 25:42 The core emotion of ordinary people: wanting to be treated like an individual 27:07 Expectations for collective action still exist, but the path to imagine it has been cut off 31:18 Some principals scold students as "little traitors" during flag-raising ceremonies 33:48 Regarding the controversy over Li coins, what Teacher Li wants to say 34:07 Teacher Li's growth: I can also actively set the agenda and let the CCP respond 38:13 What is the significance of collecting individual anonymous submissions in China today? 44:17 Guest recommendations Guest recommendations: 1. "Iron Law of Oligarchy" by Robert Michels, "Politics, Parties, and Pressure Groups" by V.O. Key Jr. 2. "The CCP's Intelligence Organization and Espionage Activities" by Weng Yanqing 3. 《Bumingbai——Why China Has Reached This Point》https://lihi.cc/CjANg Related podcast: 《EP-074 Teacher Li: The White Paper Movement Is A Beginning, Not An End》https://bumingbai.net/2023/11/25/ep-074-whyyoutouzhele/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Original title: 李老师：Li币、ICU模式与对抗极权的可能

Original description: <p>今年2月开始，李老师通过X账号“李老师不是李老师”发起了611Study.ICU和牛马.ICU两个项目，前者关注中小学生的“超时学习”问题，后者关注劳动者的“超时工作”问题，这两个项目到5月初收到了超过9000份投稿，其中包括来自四千多所学校的学生投稿，与打工人关于内卷最直接的抗议和倾诉。</p><br /><p>为什么会发起这两个项目？有哪些投稿让李老师印象深刻，它们反映了怎样的现实？发布Li币之后饱受质疑的李老师，有哪些想说的话？在海外，我们是否还有影响中国的可能？在这一期谈话中，李老师回答了关于项目本身、关于对中国内卷现实、关于Li币以及对行动的看法。</p><br /><p>白纸运动之后，李老师的生活发生了翻天覆地的变化。他认为自己只是一个博主，现实却是被当作“反对派”、遭遇跨国镇压。过去两年多，关于行动，他有了更多的思考，他把这两个项目当作一次尝试，“不再只是主动接受投稿和呈现投稿，我也可以主动设置议题，让中共来接招。”</p><br /><p>另外，不明白播客即将迎来三周岁生日，我们继续向听众朋友征集来信，我们会在之后制作成一期节目，欢迎来信至[email protected]，或填写我们的表单：<a href="https://bit.ly/bmb-collect-01" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/bmb-collect-01</a></p><br /><p>文字版：<a href="https://bit.ly/bmb-150-text" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/bmb-150-text</a></p><br /><p>时间轴</p><p>03:19 为什么会关注“超时学习”和“超时工作”？</p><p>07:22 四千多个学校的投稿，“翻墙的人数比我们想象得多”</p><p>10:50 平均每周上学95个小时，44%的学校出现过学生自杀</p><p>14:29 李老师的教学往事：“不要让孩子有自己的想法”</p><p>18:30 家庭中永远有一个心灵受创的孩子，才是真正的噩梦</p><p>21:36 大厂限制加班就上热搜，“这不正说明问题吗？”</p><p>22:14 最匪夷所思的投稿：一个来自克拉玛依统战部的声音</p><p>25:42 普通人的核心情绪：想像个人一样被对待</p><p>27:07 集体行动的期望还在，只是路径想象被切断了</p><p>31:18 有校长在升旗仪式上骂学生是“小汉奸”</p><p>33:48 关于Li币的争议，李老师想说的话</p><p>34:07 李老师的成长：我也可以主动设置议题，让中共来接招</p><p>38:13 收集个体匿名投稿在今天中国的意义是什么？</p><p>44:17 嘉宾推荐</p><br /><p>嘉宾推荐：</p><p>1.《寡头统治铁律》罗伯特·米歇尔斯、《政治、政党与压力集团》小瓦尔迪默•奥兰多•基</p><p>2.《中共情报组织与间谍活动》翁衍庆</p><p>3.<a href="https://lihi.cc/CjANg" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">《不明白——为什么中国走到了这里》</a></p><br /><p>相关播客：<a href="https://bumingbai.net/2023/11/25/ep-074-whyyoutouzhele/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">《EP-074 李老师：白纸运动是开始，不是结束》</a></p><hr /><p style="color: grey; font-size: 0.75em;"> Hosted on Acast. See <a href="https://acast.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="color: grey;" target="_blank">acast.com/privacy</a> for more information.</p>

May 10th marks the fourth anniversary of the arrest of Ruan Xiaohuan, also known as Programming Thoughts. In this episode, we re-broadcast the conversation with Ruan Xiaohuan's wife, Ms. Bei, from two years ago. This episode was recorded in May 2023, shortly after Ruan Xiaohuan's first trial, where he was sentenced to 7 years in prison for "inciting subversion of state power." Last month, Ms. Bei shared an update on Ruan Xiaohuan's situation. Since the second trial verdict in December last year, he has not been transferred from the detention center to a prison, which generally has better conditions. The family is fighting for rights such as communication. In this episode, Ms. Bei recounts how she discovered that her husband was "Programming Thoughts," and also talks about Ruan Xiaohuan in life, their marriage, and their lives. Ms. Bei also mentioned that when watching "Coco" with Ruan Xiaohuan, he said, "If there is something left in this world that many people remember you by, then you are truly alive forever." **Three-Year Anniversary Letter Collection:** On the occasion of the third anniversary, we want to collect stories from you, the listener, who has grown with the Bu明白 (Bu Ming Bai) Podcast. What does the Bu明白 Podcast mean in your life? How has your life changed with the world in these three years? Have you moved from one city to another? Have you achieved any wishes? Or are you still looking for a way forward in frustration? Please share your story with us. If convenient, please indicate the country, city, gender, age, and occupation in which you live. Send your letters to [email protected] Text version: https://bit.ly/bmb-048-txt **Timeline:** 3:42 Ms. Bei recounts the experience of Ruan Xiaohuan's arrest 8:58 How Ms. Bei discovered that Ruan Xiaohuan was "Programming Thoughts" 17:56 Ms. Bei recounts the experience of meeting and marrying Ruan Xiaohuan 25:58 Ruan Xiaohuan's views on work, money, and whether to raise children 32:08 Ms. Bei's thoughts after discovering that Ruan Xiaohuan was "Programming Thoughts" 37:20 Ms. Bei's views on the articles of "Programming Thoughts" 42:45 A voice message from a fan of "Programming Thoughts" 45:25 Why Ruan Xiaohuan chose to write a technical blog to seek change in China 47:57 Ruan Xiaohuan's journey of choosing to be an independent developer and then starting the "Programming Thoughts" blog 50:20 Does Ruan Xiaohuan feel lonely writing an anonymous blog for more than ten years? 54:07 Various abnormal phenomena at home before Ruan Xiaohuan was arrested 55:08 Ms. Bei's opinion on how "Programming Thoughts" was compromised 57:52 Ms. Bei recounts the injustices encountered in the investigation and trial of Ruan Xiaohuan's case 1:07:36 Guest recommendations Guest Recommendations: "Strategy: The Indirect Approach" by B. H. Liddell Hart https://book.douban.com/subject/4723775/ Movie "The Attorney" by Yang Woo-seok https://movie.douban.com/subject/21937445/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Original title: 【精选】谁是编程随想？

Original description: <p>5月10日是阮晓寰，也就是编程随想，被捕四周年的日子。这一期节目，我们重播两年前和阮晓寰的妻子贝女士的对话。</p><br /><p>这期节目录制的时候是2023年5月，阮晓寰一审宣判不久，他以“煽动颠覆国家政权罪”被判处7年徒刑。上个月，贝女士分享了阮晓寰的近况，自去年12月二审宣判后，他一直未被安排从看守所转到一般来说条件会相对好一些的监狱，家属正在就通讯权等问题维权。</p><br /><p>本期节目中，贝女士讲述了她发现丈夫就是“编程随想”的过程，也谈到生活中的阮晓寰、谈到她们的婚姻和人生。贝女士还讲到和阮晓寰一起看《寻梦环游记》时，阮晓寰说：“如果要有一个事情留在这个世界上，让很多人记得你，你才是真正的一直活着”。</p><br /><p><strong>三周年来信征集：</strong>三周年之际，我们想要征集声音那头、和不明白播客一起成长的你的故事，不明白播客在你的生活中意味着什么？这三年间，你的生活如何随着世界的变化而变化？是否从一个城市搬到另外一个城市？是否达成了什么愿望？抑或是仍然在沮丧中寻找前路？请来信与我们分享。方便的话，请注明你生活的国家、城市、性别、年龄和职业，来信至[email protected]</p><br /><p>文字版：<a href="https://bit.ly/bmb-048-txt" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/bmb-048-txt</a></p><br /><p><strong>时间轴：</strong></p><p>3:42贝女士讲述阮晓寰被捕的经历</p><p>8:58 贝女士是如何发现阮晓寰就是“编程随想”的</p><p>17:56 贝女士讲述与阮晓寰相识与结婚的经历</p><p>25:58 阮晓寰对于工作、金钱和是否养育子女的看法</p><p>32:08 贝女士在发现阮晓寰就是“编程随想”之后的想法</p><p>37:20 贝女士如何看待“编程随想”的文章</p><p>42:45 “编程随想”的一位粉丝发来的语音</p><p>45:25 为什么阮晓寰会选择写技术博客的方式来寻求改变中国</p><p>47:57 阮晓寰选择做独立开发者、然后开通“编程随想”博客的心路历程</p><p>50:20 阮晓寰坚持写匿名博客十几年会觉得孤独吗</p><p>54:07 阮晓寰被捕前家里的各种反常现象</p><p>55:08贝女士认为“编程随想”是如何被攻破的</p><p>57:52 贝女士讲述阮晓寰案在侦查和审判中遭遇的不公</p><p>1:07:36 嘉宾推荐</p><br /><p>嘉宾推荐：</p><p>《战略论:间接路线》李德·哈特</p><p><a href="https://book.douban.com/subject/4723775/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://book.douban.com/subject/4723775/</a></p><p>电影《辩护人》杨宇硕</p><p><a href="https://movie.douban.com/subject/21937445/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://movie.douban.com/subject/21937445/</a></p><hr /><p style="color: grey; font-size: 0.75em;"> Hosted on Acast. See <a href="https://acast.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="color: grey;" target="_blank">acast.com/privacy</a> for more information.</p>

贸易战会让中国出现重大的经济危机吗？中共的政权会因此受到何种影响？贸易战如果继续升级会不会导致战争的出现？过去这段时间，这场几乎占据了全世界注意力的贸易战，为人们带来了许多未解的问题。 为了回答这些问题，我们邀请到斯坦福大学中国经济与制度研究中心高级研究员许成刚教授，在5月3日做了一场直播答疑，本期节目为直播的精剪版本。 这场直播中，许成钢教授回应了众多听众的担忧，谈到了这场贸易战的起源、当下与对未来的影响，也分享了他对中国政治制度和经济问题的长期观察：为什么会同时存在“两个中国”——一个是DeepSeek 、高铁的中国，一个是失业率高涨和经济低迷的中国——这不是互相矛盾的？欢迎收听本期节目。 文字版全文：https://bit.ly/bmb-149-text 时间轴： 01:30 特朗普为什么要发动贸易战？难道是因为比较笨吗？ 12:23 贸易战可能把全球经济拖入衰退的泥潭吗？ 17:47 贸易战可能会有哪些走向？ 24:09 中共会因此摆脱孤立吗？ 26:56 这一次，中国为什么如此强硬？ 32:06 中国也能卡其他国家的脖子？ 35:35 鼓吹中国成功的人都是不算经济账的 37:41 “一方面技术发达，一方面癌症大发作” 47:33 新质生产力可能将中国的经济带出泥潭吗？ 50:26 贸易战是否会触发战争？ 54:47 贸易战是压倒骆驼的最后一根稻草 01:03:03 贸易战可能可能倒逼中共改革吗？ 01:10:56 中共会在意社会经济的压力与民众情绪吗？ 采访征集：在这场贸易战中，不明白播客非常希望听到普通人的声音。如果您的生意、工作受到贸易战的影响，欢迎您给我们来信。在两个政府不惜一切代价打贸易战的时候，我们想知道被当作代价牺牲掉的是什么？欢迎来信至[email protected] 相关播客链接 直播视频回放 《EP-145 黄亚生：川普的关税大棒下世界将走向何方？》

Original title: 许成钢：中美贸易战会走向何方？

Original description: <p>贸易战会让中国出现重大的经济危机吗？中共的政权会因此受到何种影响？贸易战如果继续升级会不会导致战争的出现？过去这段时间，这场几乎占据了全世界注意力的贸易战，为人们带来了许多未解的问题。</p><br /><p>为了回答这些问题，我们邀请到斯坦福大学中国经济与制度研究中心高级研究员许成刚教授，在5月3日做了一场直播答疑，本期节目为直播的精剪版本。</p><br /><p>这场直播中，许成钢教授回应了众多听众的担忧，谈到了这场贸易战的起源、当下与对未来的影响，也分享了他对中国政治制度和经济问题的长期观察：为什么会同时存在“两个中国”——一个是DeepSeek 、高铁的中国，一个是失业率高涨和经济低迷的中国——这不是互相矛盾的？欢迎收听本期节目。</p><br /><p>文字版全文：<a href="https://bit.ly/bmb-149-text" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/bmb-149-text</a></p><br /><p>时间轴：</p><p>01:30 特朗普为什么要发动贸易战？难道是因为比较笨吗？</p><p>12:23 贸易战可能把全球经济拖入衰退的泥潭吗？</p><p>17:47 贸易战可能会有哪些走向？</p><p>24:09 中共会因此摆脱孤立吗？</p><p>26:56 这一次，中国为什么如此强硬？</p><p>32:06 中国也能卡其他国家的脖子？</p><p>35:35 鼓吹中国成功的人都是不算经济账的</p><p>37:41 “一方面技术发达，一方面癌症大发作”</p><p>47:33 新质生产力可能将中国的经济带出泥潭吗？</p><p>50:26 贸易战是否会触发战争？</p><p>54:47 贸易战是压倒骆驼的最后一根稻草</p><p>01:03:03 贸易战可能可能倒逼中共改革吗？</p><p>01:10:56 中共会在意社会经济的压力与民众情绪吗？</p><br /><p>采访征集：在这场贸易战中，不明白播客非常希望听到普通人的声音。如果您的生意、工作受到贸易战的影响，欢迎您给我们来信。在两个政府不惜一切代价打贸易战的时候，我们想知道被当作代价牺牲掉的是什么？欢迎来信至[email protected]</p><br /><p>相关播客链接</p><p><a href="https://youtube.com/live/kv25Pf9-3Sc" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">直播视频回放</a></p><p><a href="https://bumingbai.net/2025/04/08/ep-145-huangyasheng/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">《EP-145 黄亚生：川普的关税大棒下世界将走向何方？》</a></p><hr /><p style="color: grey; font-size: 0.75em;"> Hosted on Acast. See <a href="https://acast.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="color: grey;" target="_blank">acast.com/privacy</a> for more information.</p>

Being questioned and admonished by the police sounds distant and serious. In reality, many ordinary people have encountered police inquiries and conversations for circumventing the Great Firewall, expressing opinions, and paying attention to certain social issues. This seems to be an "era of universal tea-drinking." What exactly is "tea-drinking"? What will you face when you receive a call from the police? What do the police care about and what are they afraid of? How can we deal with the aftermath and complex emotions of "tea-drinking"? In this episode, three ordinary people from different cities tell their "tea-drinking" stories. People are "invited for tea" for caring about social justice, insisting on their desired lifestyles, and having the most authentic desire for expression. The narratives contain absurd details, real fears, and the life destinies of people who have been changed by "tea-drinking." Choosing to publicly tell such experiences also requires courage. One storyteller said, "The state apparatus relies on fear to rule people, but (speaking out) is to eliminate the feelings of fear that once existed." Text version: https://bit.ly/bmb-148-text **Timeline**: 01:48 Emily: "Invited for tea" for scolding Xi Jinping on Twitter 05:44 The police printed out Emily's Twitter comments and read them out one by one 08:47 During the tea session, the police recommended a VPN to Emily? 10:52 Received a call from the police half a year later, imagined the worst consequences, but the result was unexpected 15:03 Unexplainable motivation: People will do things to care about social justice 19:59 The police seriously investigated bank cards, trying to find evidence of "foreign forces" 21:58 "Tea-drinking" is part of life in China 29:09 "Tea-drinking is like being slapped in the face, you will feel pain, but it doesn't mean you are weak" 31:14 Matt: The thrilling experience of drinking tea for the first time 35:07 24 hours of tea-drinking experience, realizing that "losing freedom is like years passing by in hours" 41:27 Why did Matt, as a person within the system, start circumventing the Great Firewall? 43:50 Why is he still willing to discuss "sensitive" topics after experiencing tea-drinking? 46:10 Matt's family and friends around him don't understand his experience 50:13 After immigrating, I realized that true freedom is because of a sticker 53:31 Frances: An ordinary person who has drunk tea many times 55:20 "Invited for tea" for jointly signing a memorial for Koyama Kohei 58:07 One of the National Security officers who interviewed her was an "acquaintance" 01:00:52 What do the police want to know most? 01:06:35 Why is Frances still willing to sign petitions with her real name? 01:06:58 Words for those who have never drunk tea Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Original title: 和警察“喝茶”会经历什么？

Original description: <p>被警察约谈、训诫，听起来遥远而严肃，实际上，许多普通人都曾因为翻墙、发表言论、关注某些社会议题而遭遇警方的问询和谈话，这似乎是一个“全民喝茶时代”。“喝茶”究竟是怎么回事？当你接到警察的电话，你会面临什么？警察关心什么、又害怕什么？我们能如何处理“喝茶”的余波和复杂情绪？</p><br /><p>这一期节目中，三位来自不同城市的普通人讲述了自己的“喝茶”故事，人们会因为关心社会正义、坚持自己想要的生活方式和最真实的表达欲而被“喝茶”，讲述里有荒诞的细节、真实的恐惧、也有因为“喝茶”而被改变的人生命运。选择公开讲述这样的经历也需要勇气，其中一位讲述者说，“国家机器靠恐惧来统治人，但（讲出来）是为了把曾经害怕的感受给排除出去”。</p><br /><p>文字版：<a href="https://bit.ly/bmb-148-text" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/bmb-148-text</a></p><br /><p><strong>时间轴</strong>：</p><br /><p>01:48 Emily：因为在推特上骂习近平而“喝茶”</p><p>05:44 警察打印了Emily的推特言论，一条条念出来</p><p>08:47 喝茶过程中，警察给Emily推荐了一款VPN？</p><p>10:52 半年之后接到警察的电话，想象了最坏的后果，结果却出人意外</p><p>15:03 无法解释的动机：人会为了在乎社会公正而去做事情</p><p>19:59 警察很认真追查银行卡，试图寻找”境外势力“的证据</p><p>21:58 “喝茶”是生活在中国的一部分</p><p>29:09 “喝茶就像被打了一巴掌，你会感觉痛，但不代表你软弱“</p><p>31:14 Matt：第一次喝茶的惊险经历</p><p>35:07 24小时的喝茶经历，体会到“失去自由是度‘小时’如年”</p><p>41:27 Matt作为体制内人员为何开始翻墙?</p><p>43:50 经历过喝茶为什么还愿意讨论“敏感”议题？</p><p>46:10 家人和周围朋友不理解Matt的遭遇</p><p>50:13 移民之后，意识到真正的自由是因为一张贴纸</p><p>53:31 Frances：一位喝了许多次茶的普通人</p><p>55:20 因为联署纪念小山航平而喝茶</p><p>58:07 约谈的其中一位国宝是“熟人”</p><p>01:00:52 警察最想知道的是什么？</p><p>01:06:35 Frances为什么还愿意实名联署？</p><p>01:06:58 对没有喝过茶的人想说的话</p><hr /><p style="color: grey; font-size: 0.75em;"> Hosted on Acast. See <a href="https://acast.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="color: grey;" target="_blank">acast.com/privacy</a> for more information.</p>

Xia Chaochuan was arrested twice during the White Paper Movement. During the 2023 Shanghai Halloween, photos of TA walking on the street covered in white paper were widely circulated by the media. In mid-March, Yuan Li met Xia Chaochuan during an offline meetup in the Netherlands. TA left China for the Netherlands in early 2024 and has since been deeply involved in and observing the overseas civil society ecosystem of China. In this episode, Xia Chaochuan talks about their growing up experiences, how TA gradually understood the complexity of the Chinese reality in different stages and different predicaments, as well as the risks and limitations faced by activists. How does TA view the connection between trauma and action, and how does TA choose to come forward with their real name when fear has never really dissipated? In the Netherlands, TA was embraced by a friendly community atmosphere and continues to question "what to do next." TA learns from the Tibetan and Uyghur communities, hoping to connect with more mainstream and professional social movement contexts. For Chinese activists, can we find the social movement traditions that once existed? Can those fractured experiences still be reconnected? As a generation that grew up with the White Paper Movement, how can we rebuild an ideal civil society? Text version: https://bit.ly/bmb-147-text Timeline: 01:19 A gender studies course that changed Xia Chaochuan 02:58 The dilemma of action seen after returning to China in 2020 - "Be loud and be quiet" 06:03 Trauma response after the White Paper Movement 09:24 Halloween 2020, walking on the street covered in white paper, people's reactions 12:10 Community ecology observed overseas 17:53 White Paper Movement 2nd Anniversary Rally 21:18 Inviting Tibetans and Uyghurs to participate, "returning the stage to them instead of the Han Chinese themselves" 25:58 Movement experience learned from the Tibetan and Uyghur communities 27:47 Hanging a banner in a location where Xi Jinping will appear 29:53 Fear is a lifelong trauma "If anything makes us not afraid, it's a lie" 34:22 Deciding to use real name, the price is not being able to return to China, but "the feeling of not being afraid is very important" 36:22 Reflections on overseas communities, both supported by the "bubble circle" and wanting to break the "bubble circle" 43:28 "What drives me to do social movements is not happiness, but a lot of pain" 46:24 What counts as action? Is eating hot pot, knitting sweaters, and showing movies action? 49:20 The commitment of Tibetans and Uyghurs to social movements is very high 53:54 In summer camp group photos, Chinese people always quit 55:16 Is anonymity an obstacle to moving forward? 57:52 "I no longer think about whether China will change, but how social movements will continue" Guest Recommendations: "Made in China: Women Workers in a Global Factory" by Pun Ngai "Slaughterhouse-Five" by Kurt Vonnegut "Kim Jiyoung, Born 1982" by Cho Nam-joo Related Podcast Links: EP-125 Two Years Later, How Do We View the White Paper Movement? https://bumingbai.net/2024/11/30/ep-125-baizhi/ EP-074 Teacher Li: The White Paper Movement is a Beginning, Not an End https://bumingbai.net/2023/11/25/ep-074-whyyoutouzhele/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Original title: 夏巢川：白纸一代如何重建公民社会？

Original description: <p>夏巢川在白纸运动期间两度被捕，2023年的上海万圣节，TA在身上贴满白纸走上街头的照片，被媒体广泛传播。3月中旬，袁莉在荷兰的线下见面会期间见到了夏巢川，TA在2024年初离开中国来到了荷兰，自此深度参与和观察中国的海外公民社会生态。</p><br /><p>本期节目中，夏巢川讲述了自己的成长经历，讲述了Ta如何在不同阶段、不同困境中，逐步理解中国现实的复杂性，以及行动者所面对的风险与局限。TA如何看待创伤和行动之间的联系，又是如何在恐惧从未真正消散的情况下，选择实名、站出来？</p><br /><p>在荷兰，TA被友善的社群氛围所接住，也不断追问“下一步该怎么做”。TA从藏人和维吾尔人社群中学习经验，希望与更主流的、更专业的社会运动脉络接轨。而对于中国行动者来说，我们是否能找回曾经存在过的社会运动传统？那些断裂的经验，是否仍然可能被重新链接？作为白纸成长起来的一代人，如何重建一个理想的公民社会？</p><br /><p>文字版：<a href="https://bit.ly/bmb-147-text" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/bmb-147-text</a></p><br /><p><strong>时间轴：</strong></p><p>01:19 改变夏巢川的一堂性别研究课程</p><p>02:58 2020年回国后看到的行动困境——“既要大声，也要小声”</p><p>06:03 白纸运动之后的创伤反应</p><p>09:24 2020年万圣节，贴满白纸走上街头，人们的反应</p><p>12:10 在海外观察到的社群生态</p><p>17:53 白纸两周年集会现场</p><p>21:18 邀请藏人和维吾尔人参加，“把舞台还给他们而不是汉人自己“</p><p>25:58 从藏人和维吾尔人社群学习到的运动经验</p><p>27:47 在习近平会出现的位置挂一个横幅</p><p>29:53 恐惧是伴随一生的创伤 “如果有什么东西让我们不恐惧，那是假话”</p><p>34:22 决定实名，代价是不能回国，但是”不恐惧的感受很重要“</p><p>36:22 对海外社群的反思，既被“泡泡圈”支持，又很想打破”泡泡圈“</p><p>43:28 “推动我做社会运动的不是快乐，而是很多痛苦”</p><p>46:24 什么才算行动？吃火锅、打毛线、放电影是行动吗？</p><p>49:20 藏人和维吾尔人对社会运动投入的承诺非常高</p><p>53:54 夏令营的合影环境，中国人总是退出</p><p>55:16&nbsp;匿名对于往前一步是障碍吗？</p><p>57:52 “我不再想中国会不会改变，而是想社会运动如何延续”</p><br /><p><strong>嘉宾推荐：</strong></p><p>《中国制造：全球化工厂下的女工》潘毅</p><p><a href="https://book.douban.com/subject/1395228/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">《五号屠场》库尔特·冯内古特</a></p><p><a href="https://book.douban.com/subject/36328042/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">《狂女的逆袭》闵瑞瑛</a></p><br /><p>相关播客链接：</p><p><a href="https://bumingbai.net/2024/11/30/ep-125-baizhi/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">EP-125 两年后，我们如何看待白纸运动？</a></p><p><a href="https://bumingbai.net/2023/11/25/ep-074-whyyoutouzhele/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">EP-074 李老师：白纸运动是开始，不是结束</a></p><hr /><p style="color: grey; font-size: 0.75em;"> Hosted on Acast. See <a href="https://acast.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="color: grey;" target="_blank">acast.com/privacy</a> for more information.</p>

In March 2025, Trump signed an executive order to shut down and lay off staff at Voice of America (VOA) and Radio Free Asia (RFA), leaving many journalists suddenly unemployed. This is the third episode of the "bumingbai podcast" series "My Story with Enemy Radio." In the first two episodes, Professor Xu Chenggang and four young people talked about how these "enemy radios" influenced their careers and lives. In this episode, we invited Alex, the editor-in-chief of *Wainao*, and Kris Zheng Lejie, a Hong Kong reporter who writes for VOA, to review how this crisis affected their individuals and teams. They talked about unfinished documentaries, suspended special projects, and forced suspension of cooperation, and also talked about the professional feeling of journalism as a "calling" rather than a "choice." The program also attempts to answer some bigger questions: Can news organizations that rely on congressional funding really maintain independence? For some young journalists who are still willing to write, record, and report in Chinese, is there still room to continue writing? **Timeline:** 01:42 This is a shutdown that was "prepared for, but still much faster than expected" 03:17 Two days ago, the editor was still saying "keep up the hard work," and two days later, everyone was on administrative leave. 08:00 "Calling everyone every day and saying sorry" 10:43 Who are the reporters at *Wainao*, and why are they willing to risk working for *Wainao*? 12:39 A reporter's migration path from Hong Kong to the UK 16:27 Why was *Wainao* established, and what kind of era issues does it respond to? 20:39 *Wainao*'s important record: Rescuing the history of the decade of women's rights movement that was cut off. 22:36 The original intention of *Wainao*'s launch was not to confront Little Pinks 27:06 How Hong Kong reporters continue to report on Hong Kong by relying on VOA 31:22 A friend's young daughter learns Cantonese through VOA's Cantonese program 36:07 Within Radio Free Asia, *Wainao* is a cool kid! 37:58 After the media disappears, who will occupy the space for speech? 40:19 Self-media is not equal to institutional media. Self-media comments are based on facts reported by institutional media. 41:11 Save the reports you like, the website may be taken down or deleted. 42:38 Talking about the future: Alex believes that "there is still hope in the darkness," and Kris may look for a job to make ends meet. 45:16 Their farewell Related podcast links: [EP-144 Young people who eavesdrop on "enemy radio"](https://bumingbai.net/2025/04/02/ep-144-young/) [EP-143 Xu Chenggang: What does Voice of America mean to people behind the Iron Curtain?](https://bumingbai.net/2025/03/29/ep-143-xuchenggang/) [EP-140 Li Si Pan, Fan Wenxin: Why do we need news media?](https://bumingbai.net/2025/03/09/ep-140-xinwenmeiti/) [EP-019 Jiang Xue/Zhang Jieping: What happened to Chinese media in the past 10 years?](https://bumingbai.net/2022/10/02/ep-019-jiang-xue-zhang-jieping/) Official website: [bumingbai.net](https://www.bumingbai.net/) Donation link: [https://bit.ly/bmb-donate](https://bit.ly/bmb-donate) Twitter: @[bumingbaipod](https://twitter.com/bumingbaipod) Bluesky: [@bumingbai.net](https://bsky.app/profile/bumingbai.net) Mastodon: [@bumingbaipod](https://g0v.social/@bumingbaipod) Telegram: [@bmbpod](https://t.me/bmbpod) Hosted on Acast. See [acast.com/privacy](https://acast.com/privacy) for more information.

Original title: 歪脑主编与VOA记者：未完成的报道

Original description: <p>2025年3月，特朗普签署行政令，美国之音（VOA）与自由亚洲电台（RFA）停摆、裁员，众多记者骤然失业。这是“不明白播客”系列节目《我与敌台的故事》的第三期。前两期中，许成钢教授和四位年轻人讲述了这些“敌台”如何影响了他们的职业与人生。<br /><br />这一期，我们请来《歪脑》主编Alex和为美国之音撰稿的香港记者Kris郑乐捷，回顾这场危机如何影响了他们的个人与团队。他们谈到了未完成的纪录片、被中止的专题、被迫暂停的合作，也谈到了新闻作为一种“召唤”而非“选择”的职业感。<br /><br />节目也试图回应一些更大的问题：依靠国会拨款的新闻机构，真的能保持独立性吗？对于一些仍愿意用中文写作、记录、报道的年轻记者来说，还有没有继续写下去的空间？<br /><br /><b>时间轴：</b><br /><br />01:42 这是一场“有准备、但仍然比想象快很多”的停摆<br />03:17 两天前编辑还在说“继续努力工作啊”，两天后所有人都行政休假<br />08:00 “每天都在给大家打电话，然后说对不起”<br />10:43 《歪脑》的记者们是谁，他们为什么愿意冒险为《歪脑》工作<br />12:39 从香港到英国，一个记者的迁徙路径<br />16:27 《歪脑》为什么成立，它回应什么样的时代问题？<br />20:39 《歪脑》的重要记录：抢救断代的十年女权运动史<br />22:36《歪脑》上线的初衷，不是与小粉红对抗<br />27:06 香港记者如何依靠VOA继续报道香港<br />31:22 朋友家的小女儿，通过美国之音的广东话节目来学广东话<br />36:07 在自由亚洲电台内部，《歪脑》是一个cool kid（酷小孩）！<br />37:58 媒体消失之后，言论空间会被谁占领？<br />40:19 自媒体不等于机构媒体，自媒体的评论是基于机构媒体报道的事实<br />41:11 喜欢的报道自己存下来，网站会被下架或删改<br />42:38 谈前路：Alex认为”黑暗之中还有希望“，kris可能会去找工作兼顾生计<br />45:16 TA们的告别</p><p><br />相关播客链接：<br /><a href="https://bumingbai.net/2025/04/02/ep-144-young/">EP-144 那些偷听“敌台”的年轻人</a><br /><a href="https://bumingbai.net/2025/03/29/ep-143-xuchenggang/">EP-143 许成钢：美国之音对铁幕背后的人意味着什么？</a><br /><a href="https://bumingbai.net/2025/03/09/ep-140-xinwenmeiti/">EP-140 李思磐、范文欣：我们为什么需要新闻媒体？</a><br /><a href="https://bumingbai.net/2022/10/02/ep-019-jiang-xue-zhang-jieping/">EP-019 江雪/张洁平：中国媒体过去10年发生了什么？</a></p><p><br />官网：<a href="https://www.bumingbai.net/">bumingbai.net</a><br />捐赠链接：<a href="https://bit.ly/bmb-donate">https://bit.ly/bmb-donate</a><br />推特：@<a href="https://twitter.com/bumingbaipod">bumingbaipod</a><br />蓝天：<a href="https://bsky.app/profile/bumingbai.net">@bumingbai.net</a><br />Mastodon：<a href="https://g0v.social/@bumingbaipod">@bumingbaipod</a><br />Telegram：<a href="https://t.me/bmbpod">@bmbpod</a></p><hr /><p style="color: grey; font-size: 0.75em;"> Hosted on Acast. See <a href="https://acast.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="color: grey;" target="_blank">acast.com/privacy</a> for more information.</p>

2025年4月2日，美国总统川普宣布了一项迄今为止最广泛的关税政策，几乎波及全球所有国家和经济体（连南极附近无人岛上的企鹅都未能幸免），对中国的关税被提高了34%。全球股市应声大跌。新一轮贸易战正在迅速升级。作为回应，中国宣布自4月10日起，对所有原产于美国的进口商品，在现有关税基础上加征34%。川普随即要求中国撤销对美国的报复性关税，否则将从8日开始面临50%的额外关税。增加的关税将使川普上任以来对中国进口产品征收的总关税达到104% 。关税听起来遥远又抽象，但它的后果实实在在地影响每一个人的生活。本期节目邀请麻省理工学院斯隆管理学院黄亚生教授来谈谈：他为什么说川普的关税政策是一场经济领域的“珍珠港”事件？打着“重振制造业”“减少贸易逆差”旗号出台的关税政策，真的能帮川普实现他的经济雄心吗？这项政策会如何破坏全球贸易体系？面对美国的施压，欧洲和中国应如何应对？在新的关税压力之下，中国的出口贸易将走向何方？普通人可以做些什么来减少自己的损失？欢迎收听本期节目。文字版：https://bit.ly/bmb-145-text时间轴：02:30 川普的对等关税理论，相当于“你在餐馆吃了一盘菜，就必须再卖给餐馆一盘菜”03:47 为什么说美国相当于发起经济上的珍珠港事件？07:24 过去，美元的霸主地位是如何形成的？14:32 川普的关税政策是合理的吗/自相矛盾之处23:18 “负责任的政党应该站出来，当这个人正在破坏国家的法制”32:49 通货膨胀的结果可以用税收来抵消吗？34:47 “美国面临了一个七十年代末期以后从未面临的局面”36:51 美国现在的问题不在于经济，而在于政治39:27 一切取决于美国明年的中期选举42:35 美国市场的重要性：全球最大的消费和服务市场45:16 国际经济分工是奇妙的功能，川普造成了永久性的破坏49:41 欧洲和中国的关系可能走向何方？55:21 中国应该让欧盟看到你在俄乌问题上的建设性01:00:18 应不应该反制？“不如利用这个完全无法避免的损失”01:04:40 对东南亚提高关税是为围堵中国吗？01:15:50 现在去追求民族主义的目标，经济成本是在增加的01:19:58 美国人应该借由此了解专制体制是怎么一回事儿01:21:06 四年以后，美国还能回到正轨吗？01:24:36 普通人可以做什么？嘉宾推荐：《Abundance》Ezra Klein、Derek Thompson《The Future of Freedom: Illiberal Democracy at Home and Abroad》Fareed Zakaria相关播客单集：EP-046 黄亚生：科举制度如何影响中国的未来官网：bumingbai.net捐赠链接：https://bit.ly/bmb-donate推特：@bumingbaipod蓝天：@bumingbai.netMastodon：@bumingbaipodTelegram：@bmbpod Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

本周，不明白播客继续播出“我与敌台的故事”系列第二期，对话四位年轻听众。TA们之中，有人在一年前依旧认为中国是个民主国家，有人需要收听“敌台”监测舆情，有人则成长在“反贼”家庭，六七岁已经开始听“敌台”......和上一期节目中的许成钢教授得自学无线电技术才能收听“敌台”不同，这一代年轻人们成长于互联网时代，只是“防火墙”依然存在。在高墙之下，TA们如何接触到境外媒体？又如何处理这些和主流声音不一样的信息？美国之音和自由亚洲电台的新闻如何影响了TA们的世界观和价值观？面对这两家媒体逐渐停运的现实，TA们还能依靠什么渠道关心中国正在发生的事情？文字版：https://bit.ly/bmb-144-text时间轴：02:30 John：用自带翻墙的浏览器看美国之音04:06 BBC如何颠覆中共官媒叙事？08:16 学校里不把翻墙看外媒当作禁忌的年代10:58 “先把网线拔了，先把钱断了”，然后呢？15:01  Charlotte：无法政治出柜，生活无比孤独21:19 老公为什么不让她听美国之音？25:38 玄逸：最穷的时候银行帐户只剩三位数33:34 翻墙为什么是工作的一部分？37:57 子露：在“反贼”家庭里长大39:53 敏感时期电台会有杂音？41:19 “9·11事件”发生，“全班同学除了我都在欢呼”45:44 美国之音的落幕“太不具备传奇色彩”相关播客链接：EP-143 许成钢：美国之音对铁幕背后的人意味着什么？EP-140 李思磐、范文欣：我们为什么需要新闻媒体？官网：bumingbai.net捐赠链接：https://bit.ly/bmb-donate推特：@bumingbaipod蓝天：@bumingbai.netMastodon：@bumingbaipodTelegram：@bmbpod Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

3月中旬，美国总统川普签署一项新的行政命令，受此影响，美国之音和自由亚洲电台开始停运或减员。据统计，美国之音和自由亚洲电台每周覆盖的听众数量，分别是3.6 亿人和6800万人。长期以来，这两家媒体向包括中国在内众多新闻自由受到限制的国家或地区播送新闻。人们为什么要听美国之音和自由亚洲这些“敌台”？美国之音们究竟都影响了哪些人？它们的停播又意味着什么？不明白播客将在这两周推出三期系列播客“我与敌台的故事”，分别邀请许成钢教授、四位年轻听众、《歪脑》主编Alex和为美国之音工作的撰稿人郑乐捷一同分享TA们的经历。这一期节目，斯坦福大学中国经济与制度研究中心资深研究员许成钢教授，讲述了他从15岁开始自制收音机听敌台的故事：他如何在黑龙江冰天雪地的农场里想方设法收听敌台？敌台们如何影响和启蒙了他？美国之音的记者又是如何避开警察采访他的父亲？以及美国之音这些敌台，对于铁幕背后的人们意味着什么？文字版：https://bit.ly/bmb-143-text时间轴：01:54 第一次收听敌台后母亲的严厉警告06:41 在农场公放各国敌台的音乐，“农民都不在乎”10:40 在中俄边境上听王明讲延安整风15:26 如何在农场里偷听敌台？18:59 为什么被打成反革命，收听敌台的证据怎么坐实？24:37 当时收听敌台的人都在听什么？32:38 重重监视下，美国之音的两次冒险采访经历40:38 美国之音推动了冷战结束？46:46 停掉美国之音是将言论阵地让给中共吗？相关链接：节目中谈及美国之音对许成钢的父亲许良英葬礼的报道相关播客链接：EP-142 张洁平、Ian Johnson：川普新政下的欧洲、中国与公民社会EP-140 李思磐、范文欣：我们为什么需要新闻媒体？官网：bumingbai.net捐赠链接：https://bit.ly/bmb-donate推特：@bumingbaipod蓝天：@bumingbai.netMastodon：@bumingbaipodTelegram：@bmbpod Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

过去两个月，无论身处美国、欧洲、台湾还是中国，没有人会对川普新政无动于衷。川普政府决定撤回对外援助，解散了美国国际开发署（USAID），导致众多人权组织都面临关停的风险，最近川普政府还停掉了对美国之音与自由亚洲电台的资助。这一系列举动，都对中国乃至全球的公民社会造成了重大的冲击。上周末，不明白播客在荷兰阿姆斯特丹举办的一场线下活动中，袁莉与张洁平、Ian Johnson就以“川普新政下的欧洲、中国与公民社会”为主题，一起讨论了：美国的对外援助如何影响公民社会的建设？在这样的时刻，公民社会应该如何应对？在海外参与公民运动可以帮助改变中国吗？身为普通人的我们又该如何自处？嘉宾张洁平是端传媒的创始主编，先后创办了去中心化的内容创作与讨论平台Matters以及独立书店「飞地」，这家中文书店已经开到了泰国、荷兰；Ian Johnson是普利策奖获得者，他创办了「中国民间档案馆」——一个收录了众多有关中国政治运动和个人命运的文件、档案、书、杂志和纪录片的网站。文字版：https://bit.ly/bmb-142-text时间轴：03:29 川普新政对嘉宾们有什么影响？07:45 如何看待对川普“表忠心”的行为？13:05 为什么说中国人不必觉得自己懦弱？17:10 为什么这么多机构拿美国的钱？25:08 公民社会应该如何应对？34:29 海外参与公民运动能改变中国吗？44:50 无力感中如何坚持自己？相关链接：飞地书店中国民间档案馆相关播客链接：EP-092 张洁平：活出你想要的中国EP-067 Ian Johnson/江雪：《星火》——对抗官方叙事的地下历史学家官网：bumingbai.net捐赠链接：https://bit.ly/bmb-donate推特：@bumingbaipod蓝天：@bumingbai.netMastodon：@bumingbaipodTelegram：@bmbpod Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

中纪委2025年2月底发布的工作报告显示，2024年有214.8万人被批评教育、处分、追究刑责，比上一年增加超过40万，立案人数、中管干部处理与行贿案件等数据均呈现上升趋势，我们应该如何解读这份报告？数字的上升是否说明习近平反腐“越反越腐”？从肃清政敌到开始清洗亲信，习近平反腐为什么停不下来？“妄议中央”“私自阅读违禁出版物”等罪名的背后说明了哪些问题？本期节目嘉宾是美国加州克莱蒙特·麦肯纳学院政治学教授裴敏欣，裴教授的研究方向是专制政权与威权体制的转型，他刚刚发表了一篇英文论文，题目是《从肃清到管控：习近平反腐的近期转向》。文字版：https://bit.ly/bmb-141-text时间轴：00:53 习近平上台之后反腐越反越多吗？06:50 习近平为什么要在8年内三次修改党纪？10:05 反腐是政治清洗吗？16:30 中共的官员为什么爱搞迷信？21:41 反腐宣传为何要妖魔化腐败官员？26:57 究竟有多少官员被送进了监狱？32:24 习近平反腐带来的结果是什么？36:49 我们应该怎样看待中共的官员？40:05 嘉宾推荐节目提及的专栏文章：权力、金钱和性：反腐纪录片《零容忍》揭露中共不堪家丑嘉宾推荐：《李慎之口述往事》刘志琴 / 王建勋 / 王学泰 / 王毅《他们以为他们是自由的》米尔顿·迈耶YouTube频道：Perspective相关播客：EP-106 Mike Forsythe：中共高层官员如何隐藏巨额财富？EP-025 裴敏欣：习近平权力的悖论官网：bumingbai.net捐赠链接：https://bit.ly/bmb-donate推特：@bumingbaipod蓝天：@bumingbai.netMastodon：@bumingbaipodTelegram：@bmbpod Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

在中国，媒体缺位已是常态，“新闻已死”成为现实，主流媒体要么遵循“党媒姓党”，要么被公众视为“谣媒”；在美国，川普称机构媒体是“Fake News”，部分公众丧失对媒体的信任，而社交媒体上，有权有势的人成为不实消息的策源地。公众该如何面对这个后真相时代？机构媒体何去何从？本期节目找来两位资深记者讨论一个古老的话题：我们为什么需要新闻媒体？李思磐曾在《南方都市报》深度新闻部任调查记者，现在是斯坦福大学访问学者，范文欣曾在新华社、《纽约时报》、彭博新闻社与和《华尔街日报》工作，现在是香港大学新闻及传媒研究中心兼职讲师。两位嘉宾具体讨论的问题包括：媒体为什么总是关注负面新闻？记者是在吃“人血馒头”吗？社交媒体和机构媒体的区别是什么？合格的新闻产品应该遵循哪些准则？中国的新闻环境发生了哪些变化？……文字版：https://bit.ly/bmb-140-text时间轴：02:04 如何看待对主流媒体的污名化？06:24 媒体为何总是报道负面新闻？13:54 记者是在吃‘人血馒头’吗？18:41 公众为什么不再愿意接受采访？22:56 今天媒体报道面临一个怎样的环境？26:24 匿名报道背后的现实与带来的伤害是什么？32:28 重大事件为何需要机构媒体？41:15 记者为什么强调一定要去现场？46:24 社交媒体能够取代机构媒体吗？49:43 机构媒体遵循的报道流程有何意义？55:56 中国大多数人缺乏媒体素养？01:03:14 嘉宾推荐范文欣 #不明白播客嘉宾推荐《Deadline : a memoir》James Reston《个人历史》凯瑟琳·格雷厄姆《最危险的总编辑》本·布莱德利电影《她说》玛丽亚·施拉德柴静：我亲历的重庆打黑李思磐 #不明白播客嘉宾推荐《德國教育的公民思辨課-過濾氣泡、假新聞與說謊媒體──我們如何避免被操弄？》《新闻的十大基本原则》比尔·科瓦齐  汤姆·罗森斯蒂尔《真相》比尔·科瓦齐  汤姆·罗森斯蒂尔电视剧《报社》汤姆·沃恩官网：bumingbai.net捐赠链接：https://bit.ly/bmb-donate推特：@bumingbaipod蓝天：@bumingbai.netMastodon：@bumingbaipodTelegram：@bmbpod Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.