In 2020, Professor Michael Berry of UCLA became the target of online attacks for translating "Wuhan Diary." The cyberbullying lasted for nearly three years, and he even frequently received death threats. Writer Fang Fang also suffered heavy losses. Her works cannot be published or reprinted, and even her name has almost disappeared from public space. Against this background, Michael Berry picked up Fang Fang's two novel manuscripts again. "Soft Burial" tells the story of individual destiny in the devastating land reform movement, and "The Running Flame" depicts the story of a rural woman resisting domestic violence. This year, these two works were finally published in the English-speaking world. In this podcast, Professor Michael Berry will talk to us about the process of translating these two works and the impact of cyberbullying. Michael Berry lists "Wuhan Diary," "Soft Burial," and "The Running Flame" as his "trauma trilogy": how do land reform, the epidemic, and domestic violence bring trauma to ordinary people and affect their lives? How should people deal with and face historical trauma? Do we still have the ability and opportunity to tell these historical traumas? Welcome to listen to this podcast. **Text version**: [https://bit.ly/bmb-154-text](https://bit.ly/bmb-154-text) **Timeline:** 01:38 Recalling the online violence after the publication of "Wuhan Diary": spy rumors, political cartoons, death threats 07:12 Fang Fang went from "People's Hero" to "Public Enemy": how the object of criticism was reversed overnight 11:59 Is there an organization behind the reversal of public opinion? 14:15 "Handing over the knife" becomes a watershed in the public space of public opinion 19:04 Hoping Fang Fang to take back the "writing" weapon: she was almost "banned" after the cyberbullying 23:33 Michael Berry's "trauma trilogy" 31:22 Facing historical trauma: the choice of novel characters 34:17 Teaching students to "dare to speak" for many years, but now I can only ask them to "protect themselves wisely" 40:06 The era of drawer literature 44:30 Talking about "The Running Flame": how to let Western readers understand the story of Chinese rural women 45:35 Challenges beyond censorship: fewer and fewer readers of novels in the fragmented era 46:06 Will the translator who once spent 15 years translating experimental novels worry about AI? 50:05 The process of getting out of cyberbullying is difficult, but the feelings for ordinary Chinese people have never changed 53:54 Guest recommendation Guest recommendation: [Movie "Ash is Purest White" Jia Zhangke/Wan Jiahuan](https://movie.douban.com/subject/36289263/) ["Crocodile" Mo Yan](https://book.douban.com/subject/36398795/) Related links: ["Soft Burial"](https://cup.columbia.edu/book/soft-burial/9780231214995/) ["The Running Flame"](https://cup.columbia.edu/book/the-running-flame/9780231215015/) Hosted on Acast. See [acast.com/privacy](https://acast.com/privacy) for more information.

Original title: 白睿文：从方方日记到《软埋》，为历史还个公道

Original description: <p>2020年，因为翻译《武汉日记》，加州大学洛杉矶分校的白睿文（Michael Berry）教授成为网络攻击的对象。网暴持续了将近三年，他甚至经常收到死亡威胁。作家方方同样遭受重创。她的作品无法出版、再版，连她的名字都几乎从公共空间消失。</p><br /><p>在这样的背景下，白睿文重新拾起方方的两部小说译稿。《软埋》讲述在灭绝人寰的土改运动中个人的命运，《奔跑的火光》描写一位农村女性反抗家暴的故事。今年，这两部作品终于在英文世界出版。</p><br /><p>这一期播客，白睿文教授来跟我们讲述他翻译这两部作品的过程，以及网暴带来的冲击。白睿文将《武汉日记》《软埋》和《奔跑的火光》列为他心目中的“创伤三部曲”：土地改革、疫情、家暴，不同的事件如何给普通人带来创伤，并影响他们的一生？人们又应该如何处理和面对历史创伤？我们是否还有能力和机会讲出这些历史创伤？欢迎收听本期播客。</p><br /><p><strong>文字版</strong>：<a href="https://bit.ly/bmb-154-text" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/bmb-154-text</a></p><br /><p><strong>时间轴：</strong></p><br /><p>01:38 回忆《武汉日记》出版后遭遇的网络暴力：间谍谣言、政治漫画、死亡威胁</p><p>07:12 方方从“人民英雄”变成“大家的公敌”：批评对象如何在一夜之间被调转</p><p>11:59 舆论调转背后是否有组织？</p><p>14:15 “递刀子”成为舆论公共空间的分水岭</p><p>19:04 希望方方拿回”写作“武器：网暴后她几乎被“封杀”</p><p>23:33 白睿文心目中的“创伤三部曲”</p><p>31:22 面对历史创伤：小说人物的选择</p><p>34:17 多年来教学生“敢讲”，眼下却只能请他们“明哲保身”</p><p>40:06 抽屉文学的时代</p><p>44:30 谈《奔跑的火光》：如何让西方读者理解中国农村女性的故事</p><p>45:35 审查之外的挑战：长篇小说的读者在碎片化时代里越来越少</p><p>46:06 曾经花费15年翻译实验性小说的译者，会担心AI吗？</p><p>50:05 走出网暴的过程很艰难，但对普通中国人的情感始终没有变</p><p>53:54 嘉宾推荐</p><br /><p>嘉宾推荐：</p><p><a href="https://movie.douban.com/subject/36289263/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">电影《风流一代》贾樟柯/万佳欢</a></p><p><a href="https://book.douban.com/subject/36398795/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">《鳄鱼》莫言</a></p><br /><p>相关链接：</p><p><a href="https://cup.columbia.edu/book/soft-burial/9780231214995/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">《Soft Burial》（《软埋》</a></p><p><a href="https://cup.columbia.edu/book/the-running-flame/9780231215015/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">《The Running Flame》（《奔跑的火光》）</a></p><hr /><p style="color: grey; font-size: 0.75em;"> Hosted on Acast. See <a href="https://acast.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="color: grey;" target="_blank">acast.com/privacy</a> for more information.</p>

Why would a person who has suffered torment and hardship remain loyal to the party that caused them immense suffering? This may be one of the core issues in understanding Chinese politics. Joseph Torigian, Associate Professor at American University, describes the ups and downs of Xi Zhongxun's life in his forthcoming book, "The Party's Interests Come First," through detailed historical materials. Xi Zhongxun is not only Xi Jinping's father, but also one of the most complex and tragic representatives of the CCP elders. Writing and understanding a complex communist figure is undoubtedly very difficult. How does Tang Zhixue find important clues from the vast and opaque historical materials of the party? How to judge and select these materials? Tang Zhixue also talked about the responsibility and significance of being a historian. The purpose of writing this book is not to judge whether Xi Zhongxun is "good" or "bad", but to tell what kind of system this person lives in? How does this system shape and devour individuals? Perhaps many listeners are more concerned about: Can understanding Xi Zhongxun's life help understand Xi Jinping's ruling logic? Why did Xi Jinping become who he is today? How do historical, family, and personal factors shape him? Is the path he takes an inheritance or betrayal of his father, Xi Zhongxun? Where will he take China? Welcome to listen to this podcast. Text version: https://bit.ly/bmb-153-text Timeline: 03:51 Why did Tang Zhixue write "Biography of Xi Zhongxun"? 07:36 How to select historical materials and the precious experience of interviewing the Dalai Lama 11:26 The Yan'an Rectification Movement and Xi Zhongxun's "absurd and terrifying" actions 15:03 Why was Xi Zhongxun promoted so quickly? 17:17 In united front work, true friendship VS political friendship 21:19 Why does Xi Zhongxun always end up on the leftist or tough line? 24:52 Why do CCP leaders implement bad policies to please Mao Zedong? 28:17 One of Xi Zhongxun's tragic moments: the publication of the anti-party novel "Liu Zhidan" 31:26 Xi Zhongxun's mental state: constant crying 33:13 How did Xi Zhongxun educate Xi Jinping? 38:35 Xi Zhongxun said that Xi Jinping is the material to be a premier 39:58 What role did Xi Zhongxun play in Xi Jinping's career? 44:58 Why didn't Xi Jinping grow into a reformer? 48:33 How to understand the many labels on Xi Zhongxun? 51:38 When did Xi Jinping become Xi Jinping? 55:38 Xi Jinping's worldview: succession politics and self-revolution 01:05:26 Guest recommendation Tang Zhixue #Guest recommendation: Hipsters Zhong Yanlin: Peng Zhen: Mao Zedong's "Close Comrade-in-Arms" (1941-1966) Jiang Guangci: The Wandering Youth Related podcast links: EP-033 Joseph Torigian: The End and Succession of Dictators EP116-Cai Xia: Can Xi Jinping restore Mao-style socialism? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Original title: 唐志学：习近平何以成为习近平，习仲勋传里有答案吗？

Original description: <p>为什么一个受尽折磨和苦难的人仍然会衷心于给他带来巨大苦难的党？这也许是理解中国政治的核心问题之一。美利坚大学副教授唐志学Joseph Torigian在即将出版的新书《The Party’s Interests Come First》（党的利益在第一位）中通过翔实的史料描写了习仲勋跌宕起伏的一生。</p><br /><p>习仲勋不仅是习近平的父亲，也是中共元老中最复杂、最悲剧的代表之一。书写和理解一个复杂的共产党人物，无疑是非常困难的，唐志学如何从庞杂的、并不透明的党史资料中找到重要的线头？如何判断和选取这些资料？唐志学也谈到作为历史学家的责任和意义，他写这本书，目的并不在于判断习仲勋是“好”是“坏”，而是讲述这个人究竟生活在一个什么样的体制里？这个体制又是如何塑造和吞噬个人的？</p><br /><p>也许许多听众更关心的是：理解习仲勋的一生，可以理解习近平的执政逻辑吗？习近平为何会成为今天的习近平，历史、家庭和个人的因素如何塑造他？他所走的路，是对父亲习仲勋的继承还是背叛？他会将中国推向何方？欢迎收听本期播客。</p><br /><p>文字版：<a href="https://bit.ly/bmb-153-text" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/bmb-153-text</a></p><br /><p><strong>时间轴：</strong></p><p>03:51 为什么唐志学要写“习仲勋传”</p><p>07:36 如何选取史料、采访达赖喇嘛的珍贵经历</p><p>11:26 延安整风运动与习仲勋“荒诞又恐怖”的作为</p><p>15:03 习仲勋为什么被提拔得这么快？</p><p>17:17 统战工作中，真实的友谊VS政治的友谊</p><p>21:19 习仲勋为何总在最后走到左倾或强硬的路线之中？</p><p>24:52 中共领导人为什么要为了讨好毛泽东而实施糟糕的政策?</p><p>28:17 习仲勋的悲剧时刻之一：反党小说《刘志丹》的出版</p><p>31:26 习仲勋的精神状态：常年的哭声</p><p>33:13 习仲勋如何教育习近平？</p><p>38:35 习仲勋说，习近平是做总理的料</p><p>39:58 习仲勋在习近平的仕途中发挥了什么作用？</p><p>44:58 习近平为何没有成长为一个改革派？</p><p>48:33 如何理解习仲勋身上的诸多标签？</p><p>51:38 习近平何时变成习近平？</p><p>55:38 习近平的世界观：接班政治与自我革命</p><p>01:05:26 嘉宾推荐</p><br /><p>唐志学 #嘉宾推荐：</p><p><a href="https://movie.douban.com/subject/3260445/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">《潮爆莫斯科》（Hipsters）</a></p><p><a href="https://bit.ly/43RxiIF" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">钟延麟：《彭真：毛泽东的“亲密战友”（1941-1966）》</a></p><p><a href="https://book.douban.com/subject/35439520/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">蒋光慈：《少年漂泊者》</a></p><br /><p>相关播客链接：</p><p><a href="https://bumingbai.net/2023/01/14/ep-033-joseph-torigian/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">EP-033 唐志学：独裁者的终局与继承</a></p><p><a href="https://bumingbai.net/2024/10/12/ep-116-caixia/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">EP116-蔡霞：习近平能否复辟毛式社会主义？</a></p><hr /><p style="color: grey; font-size: 0.75em;"> Hosted on Acast. See <a href="https://acast.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="color: grey;" target="_blank">acast.com/privacy</a> for more information.</p>

Today is May 27th, Unclear Podcast's third anniversary! Recently, we solicited letters from listeners, hoping everyone would write down the most painful and happiest things of the past three years, the biggest changes in life, and stories with Unclear Podcast. We received letters from all over the world, bringing everyone's migration trajectories and changes in mood. Thank you for reviewing the past hundred-plus episodes and everything we've experienced together over the past three years, from the Shanghai lockdown three years ago to this moment. These experiences are the most inseparable part of us and this country, and at different moments, they have pushed us to different places. Thank you to every listener for the past three years, and we hope we can go through many more third anniversaries together! Text version: https://bit.ly/bmb-152-text

Original title: 三周年特别节目：和袁莉一起读信！

Original description: <p>今天是5月27日，不明白播客开播三周年啦！前阵子，我们征集了听众的来信，希望大家写下过去三年最痛苦和最快乐的事情、生活中最大的变化以及和不明白播客的故事。</p><br /><p>我们收到了从世界各地来的信件，也带来大家迁徙的轨迹和心境的变化。谢谢大家一起回顾了过去的一百多期节目和三年共同经历的一切，从三年前的上海封控到此刻，这些经历是我们和这个国家最不可分割的一部分，也在不同的时刻，把我们推向了不同的地方。</p><br /><p>感谢三年来的每一位听众，希望我们还能一起走过很多个三周年！</p><br /><p>文字版：<a href="https://bit.ly/bmb-152-text" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/bmb-152-text&nbsp;</a></p><hr /><p style="color: grey; font-size: 0.75em;"> Hosted on Acast. See <a href="https://acast.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="color: grey;" target="_blank">acast.com/privacy</a> for more information.</p>

In mid-May, negotiations between the United States and China in Geneva paused a chaotic and intense trade war that had lasted for more than a month. However, this does not mean that the shadow of the economic crisis has receded.Two years ago, Professor Victor Shih of the University of California, San Diego, pointed out China's local debt crisis in our program. Two years later, is China's local debt problem more serious? With exports, a driving force for economic growth, potentially facing a decline, how will the trade war further affect China's central and local finances? Could the trade war trigger a financial crisis in China?Victor Shih also shared in the program the "accounting games" China is currently using to deal with local debt problems, what preparations the Chinese government made before the new round of trade war, and how he views the relationship between the winners and losers of the trade war at the national level and ordinary people. Welcome to listen to this episode.Text version: https://bit.ly/bmb-151-textTimeline:01:58 Victor Shih comments on the first round of the Sino-US trade war05:09 How does the Chinese government deal with corporate bankruptcies and large-scale unemployment caused by the trade war?07:14 The impact of current tariff levels on China's GDP growth10:17 "Fiscal pressure may be the only pressure the trade war puts on the Chinese government"14:47 Will fiscal pressure affect the stability maintenance capabilities of local governments?15:33 Two years later, what are the overall changes in the situation of local debt?18:13 After the trade war, which provinces in China are likely to have a more serious debt crisis?23:24 Does the Chinese government tacitly approve the decline of traditional service industries and only care about AI?25:22 The relationship between China's local debt problem and ordinary people30:43 What is the logic of the CCP's economic policy?33:12 The dual challenges of weak domestic demand and higher tariffs36:43 Will the trade war be a long-term situation?41:28 When China's economic data becomes increasingly opaque, how do economists judge?46:17 Guest recommendationsGuest recommendations:Film "Conclave" by Edward Berger"Rejuvenating Communism" by Jérôme Doyon"THE IMPACT OF U.S.-CHINA TENSIONS ON U.S. SCIENCE"Related links:EP-035 Victor Shih: Will Local Debt Drag Down the Chinese Economy?EP-149 Xu Chenggang: Where Will the Sino-US Trade War Go?"A 10 Trillion RMB Accounting Exercise" Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Original title: Victor Shih：贸易战会引发中国的财政危机吗？

Original description: <p>5月中旬，中美两国在日内瓦的谈判，为一个多月来混乱、激烈的贸易战按下暂停键。但这并不意味着经济危机的阴影已经远去。</p><br /><p>两年前，加州大学圣地亚哥分校教授Victor Shih曾经在我们的节目中指出过中国的地方债务危机。两年之后，中国的地方债问题是否更严峻了？在作为经济增长动力的出口可能面临下滑的背景下，贸易战会如何进一步影响中国的中央财政与地方财政？贸易战可能会引发中国的财政危机吗？</p><br /><p>Victor Shih也在节目中分享了，中国当前处理地方债务问题的“会计游戏”，中国政府在新一轮贸易战发生前做了哪些准备，以及他如何看待贸易战在国家层面的输赢与普通人的关系。欢迎收听本期节目。</p><br /><p>文字版：<a href="https://bit.ly/bmb-151-text" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/bmb-151-text</a></p><br /><p><strong>时间轴：</strong></p><p>01:58 Victor Shih评价中美贸易战的第一回合</p><p>05:09 中国政府如何应对贸易战带来的企业破产与大规模失业？</p><p>07:14 当前关税水平对中国GDP增长的影响</p><p>10:17 “财政压力可能是贸易战对中国政府产生的唯一压力”</p><p>14:47 财政压力会影响地方政府的维稳能力吗？</p><p>15:33 两年过去了，地方债的整体情况有什么变化？</p><p>18:13 贸易战之后，中国哪些省份的债务危机可能更严重？</p><p>23:24 中国政府默许传统服务业衰退、只关心AI？</p><p>25:22 中国地方债问题和普通人之间的关系</p><p>30:43 中共经济政策的逻辑是什么？</p><p>33:12 国内需求疲软和更高关税带来的双重挑战</p><p>36:43 贸易战会是一个长期的状况吗？</p><p>41:28 当中国的经济数据越来越不透明，经济学家如何判断？</p><p>46:17 嘉宾推荐</p><br /><p><strong>嘉宾推荐：</strong></p><p><a href="https://movie.douban.com/subject/35948807/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">电影《秘密会议》（《Conclave》）爱德华·贝尔格</a></p><p><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Rejuvenating-Communism-Organizations-Post-Mao-Understandings/dp/0472075578" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">《Rejuvenating Communism》Jérôme Doyon</a></p><p><a href="https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w29941/w29941.pdf" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">《THE IMPACT OF U.S.-CHINA TENSIONS ON U.S. SCIENCE》</a></p><br /><p><strong>相关链接：</strong></p><p><a href="https://bumingbai.net/2023/02/04/ep-35-victor-shih-on-local-debt/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">EP-035 Victor Shih：地方债会拖垮中国经济吗？</a></p><p><a href="https://bumingbai.net/2025/05/05/ep-149-xuchenggang/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">EP-149 许成钢：中美贸易战会走向何方？</a></p><p><a href="https://carnegieendowment.org/posts/2024/11/a-10-trillion-rmb-accounting-exercise?lang=en" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">《A 10 Trillion RMB Accounting Exercise》</a></p><hr /><p style="color: grey; font-size: 0.75em;"> Hosted on Acast. See <a href="https://acast.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="color: grey;" target="_blank">acast.com/privacy</a> for more information.</p>

Starting February this year, Teacher Li launched 611Study.ICU and NiuMa.ICU projects through X account "Teacher Li Isn't Teacher Li", the former focusing on "excessive studying" of primary and secondary school students, the latter focusing on "excessive working" of laborers. By early May, these two projects received over 9,000 submissions, including student submissions from over 4,000 schools, and the most direct protests and outcries from workers about involution. Why launch these two projects? Which submissions impressed Teacher Li, and what reality do they reflect? What does Teacher Li, who has been questioned after releasing Li coins, want to say? Is it still possible for us to influence China from overseas? In this conversation, Teacher Li answered questions about the projects themselves, the reality of involution in China, Li coins, and views on action. After the White Paper Movement, Teacher Li's life underwent earth-shaking changes. He believes he is just a blogger, but the reality is that he is regarded as an "opposition" and encounters transnational repression. In the past two years, he has had more thoughts on action. He regards these two projects as an attempt, "no longer just passively accepting and presenting submissions, but I can also actively set the agenda and let the CCP respond." In addition, the Bumingbai podcast is about to celebrate its third anniversary. We continue to solicit letters from listeners, which we will produce into an episode later. You are welcome to send letters to [email protected], or fill out our form: https://bit.ly/bmb-collect-01 Text version: https://bit.ly/bmb-150-text Timeline 03:19 Why focus on "excessive studying" and "excessive working"? 07:22 Submissions from more than 4,000 schools, "the number of people who circumvent the firewall is more than we imagined" 10:50 Average of 95 hours of school per week, 44% of schools have had student suicides 14:29 Teacher Li's teaching past: "Don't let children have their own ideas" 18:30 A child who is always traumatized in the family is the real nightmare 21:36 Major factories restricting overtime became a trending topic, "doesn't this just illustrate the problem?" 22:14 The most bizarre submission: a voice from the United Front Work Department of Karamay 25:42 The core emotion of ordinary people: wanting to be treated like an individual 27:07 Expectations for collective action still exist, but the path to imagine it has been cut off 31:18 Some principals scold students as "little traitors" during flag-raising ceremonies 33:48 Regarding the controversy over Li coins, what Teacher Li wants to say 34:07 Teacher Li's growth: I can also actively set the agenda and let the CCP respond 38:13 What is the significance of collecting individual anonymous submissions in China today? 44:17 Guest recommendations Guest recommendations: 1. "Iron Law of Oligarchy" by Robert Michels, "Politics, Parties, and Pressure Groups" by V.O. Key Jr. 2. "The CCP's Intelligence Organization and Espionage Activities" by Weng Yanqing 3. 《Bumingbai——Why China Has Reached This Point》https://lihi.cc/CjANg Related podcast: 《EP-074 Teacher Li: The White Paper Movement Is A Beginning, Not An End》https://bumingbai.net/2023/11/25/ep-074-whyyoutouzhele/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Original title: 李老师：Li币、ICU模式与对抗极权的可能

Original description: <p>今年2月开始，李老师通过X账号“李老师不是李老师”发起了611Study.ICU和牛马.ICU两个项目，前者关注中小学生的“超时学习”问题，后者关注劳动者的“超时工作”问题，这两个项目到5月初收到了超过9000份投稿，其中包括来自四千多所学校的学生投稿，与打工人关于内卷最直接的抗议和倾诉。</p><br /><p>为什么会发起这两个项目？有哪些投稿让李老师印象深刻，它们反映了怎样的现实？发布Li币之后饱受质疑的李老师，有哪些想说的话？在海外，我们是否还有影响中国的可能？在这一期谈话中，李老师回答了关于项目本身、关于对中国内卷现实、关于Li币以及对行动的看法。</p><br /><p>白纸运动之后，李老师的生活发生了翻天覆地的变化。他认为自己只是一个博主，现实却是被当作“反对派”、遭遇跨国镇压。过去两年多，关于行动，他有了更多的思考，他把这两个项目当作一次尝试，“不再只是主动接受投稿和呈现投稿，我也可以主动设置议题，让中共来接招。”</p><br /><p>另外，不明白播客即将迎来三周岁生日，我们继续向听众朋友征集来信，我们会在之后制作成一期节目，欢迎来信至[email protected]，或填写我们的表单：<a href="https://bit.ly/bmb-collect-01" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/bmb-collect-01</a></p><br /><p>文字版：<a href="https://bit.ly/bmb-150-text" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/bmb-150-text</a></p><br /><p>时间轴</p><p>03:19 为什么会关注“超时学习”和“超时工作”？</p><p>07:22 四千多个学校的投稿，“翻墙的人数比我们想象得多”</p><p>10:50 平均每周上学95个小时，44%的学校出现过学生自杀</p><p>14:29 李老师的教学往事：“不要让孩子有自己的想法”</p><p>18:30 家庭中永远有一个心灵受创的孩子，才是真正的噩梦</p><p>21:36 大厂限制加班就上热搜，“这不正说明问题吗？”</p><p>22:14 最匪夷所思的投稿：一个来自克拉玛依统战部的声音</p><p>25:42 普通人的核心情绪：想像个人一样被对待</p><p>27:07 集体行动的期望还在，只是路径想象被切断了</p><p>31:18 有校长在升旗仪式上骂学生是“小汉奸”</p><p>33:48 关于Li币的争议，李老师想说的话</p><p>34:07 李老师的成长：我也可以主动设置议题，让中共来接招</p><p>38:13 收集个体匿名投稿在今天中国的意义是什么？</p><p>44:17 嘉宾推荐</p><br /><p>嘉宾推荐：</p><p>1.《寡头统治铁律》罗伯特·米歇尔斯、《政治、政党与压力集团》小瓦尔迪默•奥兰多•基</p><p>2.《中共情报组织与间谍活动》翁衍庆</p><p>3.<a href="https://lihi.cc/CjANg" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">《不明白——为什么中国走到了这里》</a></p><br /><p>相关播客：<a href="https://bumingbai.net/2023/11/25/ep-074-whyyoutouzhele/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">《EP-074 李老师：白纸运动是开始，不是结束》</a></p><hr /><p style="color: grey; font-size: 0.75em;"> Hosted on Acast. See <a href="https://acast.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="color: grey;" target="_blank">acast.com/privacy</a> for more information.</p>

May 10th marks the fourth anniversary of the arrest of Ruan Xiaohuan, also known as Programming Thoughts. In this episode, we re-broadcast the conversation with Ruan Xiaohuan's wife, Ms. Bei, from two years ago. This episode was recorded in May 2023, shortly after Ruan Xiaohuan's first trial, where he was sentenced to 7 years in prison for "inciting subversion of state power." Last month, Ms. Bei shared an update on Ruan Xiaohuan's situation. Since the second trial verdict in December last year, he has not been transferred from the detention center to a prison, which generally has better conditions. The family is fighting for rights such as communication. In this episode, Ms. Bei recounts how she discovered that her husband was "Programming Thoughts," and also talks about Ruan Xiaohuan in life, their marriage, and their lives. Ms. Bei also mentioned that when watching "Coco" with Ruan Xiaohuan, he said, "If there is something left in this world that many people remember you by, then you are truly alive forever." **Three-Year Anniversary Letter Collection:** On the occasion of the third anniversary, we want to collect stories from you, the listener, who has grown with the Bu明白 (Bu Ming Bai) Podcast. What does the Bu明白 Podcast mean in your life? How has your life changed with the world in these three years? Have you moved from one city to another? Have you achieved any wishes? Or are you still looking for a way forward in frustration? Please share your story with us. If convenient, please indicate the country, city, gender, age, and occupation in which you live. Send your letters to [email protected] Text version: https://bit.ly/bmb-048-txt **Timeline:** 3:42 Ms. Bei recounts the experience of Ruan Xiaohuan's arrest 8:58 How Ms. Bei discovered that Ruan Xiaohuan was "Programming Thoughts" 17:56 Ms. Bei recounts the experience of meeting and marrying Ruan Xiaohuan 25:58 Ruan Xiaohuan's views on work, money, and whether to raise children 32:08 Ms. Bei's thoughts after discovering that Ruan Xiaohuan was "Programming Thoughts" 37:20 Ms. Bei's views on the articles of "Programming Thoughts" 42:45 A voice message from a fan of "Programming Thoughts" 45:25 Why Ruan Xiaohuan chose to write a technical blog to seek change in China 47:57 Ruan Xiaohuan's journey of choosing to be an independent developer and then starting the "Programming Thoughts" blog 50:20 Does Ruan Xiaohuan feel lonely writing an anonymous blog for more than ten years? 54:07 Various abnormal phenomena at home before Ruan Xiaohuan was arrested 55:08 Ms. Bei's opinion on how "Programming Thoughts" was compromised 57:52 Ms. Bei recounts the injustices encountered in the investigation and trial of Ruan Xiaohuan's case 1:07:36 Guest recommendations Guest Recommendations: "Strategy: The Indirect Approach" by B. H. Liddell Hart https://book.douban.com/subject/4723775/ Movie "The Attorney" by Yang Woo-seok https://movie.douban.com/subject/21937445/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Original title: 【精选】谁是编程随想？

Original description: <p>5月10日是阮晓寰，也就是编程随想，被捕四周年的日子。这一期节目，我们重播两年前和阮晓寰的妻子贝女士的对话。</p><br /><p>这期节目录制的时候是2023年5月，阮晓寰一审宣判不久，他以“煽动颠覆国家政权罪”被判处7年徒刑。上个月，贝女士分享了阮晓寰的近况，自去年12月二审宣判后，他一直未被安排从看守所转到一般来说条件会相对好一些的监狱，家属正在就通讯权等问题维权。</p><br /><p>本期节目中，贝女士讲述了她发现丈夫就是“编程随想”的过程，也谈到生活中的阮晓寰、谈到她们的婚姻和人生。贝女士还讲到和阮晓寰一起看《寻梦环游记》时，阮晓寰说：“如果要有一个事情留在这个世界上，让很多人记得你，你才是真正的一直活着”。</p><br /><p><strong>三周年来信征集：</strong>三周年之际，我们想要征集声音那头、和不明白播客一起成长的你的故事，不明白播客在你的生活中意味着什么？这三年间，你的生活如何随着世界的变化而变化？是否从一个城市搬到另外一个城市？是否达成了什么愿望？抑或是仍然在沮丧中寻找前路？请来信与我们分享。方便的话，请注明你生活的国家、城市、性别、年龄和职业，来信至[email protected]</p><br /><p>文字版：<a href="https://bit.ly/bmb-048-txt" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/bmb-048-txt</a></p><br /><p><strong>时间轴：</strong></p><p>3:42贝女士讲述阮晓寰被捕的经历</p><p>8:58 贝女士是如何发现阮晓寰就是“编程随想”的</p><p>17:56 贝女士讲述与阮晓寰相识与结婚的经历</p><p>25:58 阮晓寰对于工作、金钱和是否养育子女的看法</p><p>32:08 贝女士在发现阮晓寰就是“编程随想”之后的想法</p><p>37:20 贝女士如何看待“编程随想”的文章</p><p>42:45 “编程随想”的一位粉丝发来的语音</p><p>45:25 为什么阮晓寰会选择写技术博客的方式来寻求改变中国</p><p>47:57 阮晓寰选择做独立开发者、然后开通“编程随想”博客的心路历程</p><p>50:20 阮晓寰坚持写匿名博客十几年会觉得孤独吗</p><p>54:07 阮晓寰被捕前家里的各种反常现象</p><p>55:08贝女士认为“编程随想”是如何被攻破的</p><p>57:52 贝女士讲述阮晓寰案在侦查和审判中遭遇的不公</p><p>1:07:36 嘉宾推荐</p><br /><p>嘉宾推荐：</p><p>《战略论:间接路线》李德·哈特</p><p><a href="https://book.douban.com/subject/4723775/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://book.douban.com/subject/4723775/</a></p><p>电影《辩护人》杨宇硕</p><p><a href="https://movie.douban.com/subject/21937445/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://movie.douban.com/subject/21937445/</a></p><hr /><p style="color: grey; font-size: 0.75em;"> Hosted on Acast. See <a href="https://acast.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="color: grey;" target="_blank">acast.com/privacy</a> for more information.</p>

贸易战会让中国出现重大的经济危机吗？中共的政权会因此受到何种影响？贸易战如果继续升级会不会导致战争的出现？过去这段时间，这场几乎占据了全世界注意力的贸易战，为人们带来了许多未解的问题。 为了回答这些问题，我们邀请到斯坦福大学中国经济与制度研究中心高级研究员许成刚教授，在5月3日做了一场直播答疑，本期节目为直播的精剪版本。 这场直播中，许成钢教授回应了众多听众的担忧，谈到了这场贸易战的起源、当下与对未来的影响，也分享了他对中国政治制度和经济问题的长期观察：为什么会同时存在“两个中国”——一个是DeepSeek 、高铁的中国，一个是失业率高涨和经济低迷的中国——这不是互相矛盾的？欢迎收听本期节目。 文字版全文：https://bit.ly/bmb-149-text 时间轴： 01:30 特朗普为什么要发动贸易战？难道是因为比较笨吗？ 12:23 贸易战可能把全球经济拖入衰退的泥潭吗？ 17:47 贸易战可能会有哪些走向？ 24:09 中共会因此摆脱孤立吗？ 26:56 这一次，中国为什么如此强硬？ 32:06 中国也能卡其他国家的脖子？ 35:35 鼓吹中国成功的人都是不算经济账的 37:41 “一方面技术发达，一方面癌症大发作” 47:33 新质生产力可能将中国的经济带出泥潭吗？ 50:26 贸易战是否会触发战争？ 54:47 贸易战是压倒骆驼的最后一根稻草 01:03:03 贸易战可能可能倒逼中共改革吗？ 01:10:56 中共会在意社会经济的压力与民众情绪吗？ 采访征集：在这场贸易战中，不明白播客非常希望听到普通人的声音。如果您的生意、工作受到贸易战的影响，欢迎您给我们来信。在两个政府不惜一切代价打贸易战的时候，我们想知道被当作代价牺牲掉的是什么？欢迎来信至[email protected] 相关播客链接 直播视频回放 《EP-145 黄亚生：川普的关税大棒下世界将走向何方？》

Original title: 许成钢：中美贸易战会走向何方？

Original description: <p>贸易战会让中国出现重大的经济危机吗？中共的政权会因此受到何种影响？贸易战如果继续升级会不会导致战争的出现？过去这段时间，这场几乎占据了全世界注意力的贸易战，为人们带来了许多未解的问题。</p><br /><p>为了回答这些问题，我们邀请到斯坦福大学中国经济与制度研究中心高级研究员许成刚教授，在5月3日做了一场直播答疑，本期节目为直播的精剪版本。</p><br /><p>这场直播中，许成钢教授回应了众多听众的担忧，谈到了这场贸易战的起源、当下与对未来的影响，也分享了他对中国政治制度和经济问题的长期观察：为什么会同时存在“两个中国”——一个是DeepSeek 、高铁的中国，一个是失业率高涨和经济低迷的中国——这不是互相矛盾的？欢迎收听本期节目。</p><br /><p>文字版全文：<a href="https://bit.ly/bmb-149-text" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/bmb-149-text</a></p><br /><p>时间轴：</p><p>01:30 特朗普为什么要发动贸易战？难道是因为比较笨吗？</p><p>12:23 贸易战可能把全球经济拖入衰退的泥潭吗？</p><p>17:47 贸易战可能会有哪些走向？</p><p>24:09 中共会因此摆脱孤立吗？</p><p>26:56 这一次，中国为什么如此强硬？</p><p>32:06 中国也能卡其他国家的脖子？</p><p>35:35 鼓吹中国成功的人都是不算经济账的</p><p>37:41 “一方面技术发达，一方面癌症大发作”</p><p>47:33 新质生产力可能将中国的经济带出泥潭吗？</p><p>50:26 贸易战是否会触发战争？</p><p>54:47 贸易战是压倒骆驼的最后一根稻草</p><p>01:03:03 贸易战可能可能倒逼中共改革吗？</p><p>01:10:56 中共会在意社会经济的压力与民众情绪吗？</p><br /><p>采访征集：在这场贸易战中，不明白播客非常希望听到普通人的声音。如果您的生意、工作受到贸易战的影响，欢迎您给我们来信。在两个政府不惜一切代价打贸易战的时候，我们想知道被当作代价牺牲掉的是什么？欢迎来信至[email protected]</p><br /><p>相关播客链接</p><p><a href="https://youtube.com/live/kv25Pf9-3Sc" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">直播视频回放</a></p><p><a href="https://bumingbai.net/2025/04/08/ep-145-huangyasheng/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">《EP-145 黄亚生：川普的关税大棒下世界将走向何方？》</a></p><hr /><p style="color: grey; font-size: 0.75em;"> Hosted on Acast. See <a href="https://acast.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="color: grey;" target="_blank">acast.com/privacy</a> for more information.</p>

Being questioned and admonished by the police sounds distant and serious. In reality, many ordinary people have encountered police inquiries and conversations for circumventing the Great Firewall, expressing opinions, and paying attention to certain social issues. This seems to be an "era of universal tea-drinking." What exactly is "tea-drinking"? What will you face when you receive a call from the police? What do the police care about and what are they afraid of? How can we deal with the aftermath and complex emotions of "tea-drinking"? In this episode, three ordinary people from different cities tell their "tea-drinking" stories. People are "invited for tea" for caring about social justice, insisting on their desired lifestyles, and having the most authentic desire for expression. The narratives contain absurd details, real fears, and the life destinies of people who have been changed by "tea-drinking." Choosing to publicly tell such experiences also requires courage. One storyteller said, "The state apparatus relies on fear to rule people, but (speaking out) is to eliminate the feelings of fear that once existed." Text version: https://bit.ly/bmb-148-text **Timeline**: 01:48 Emily: "Invited for tea" for scolding Xi Jinping on Twitter 05:44 The police printed out Emily's Twitter comments and read them out one by one 08:47 During the tea session, the police recommended a VPN to Emily? 10:52 Received a call from the police half a year later, imagined the worst consequences, but the result was unexpected 15:03 Unexplainable motivation: People will do things to care about social justice 19:59 The police seriously investigated bank cards, trying to find evidence of "foreign forces" 21:58 "Tea-drinking" is part of life in China 29:09 "Tea-drinking is like being slapped in the face, you will feel pain, but it doesn't mean you are weak" 31:14 Matt: The thrilling experience of drinking tea for the first time 35:07 24 hours of tea-drinking experience, realizing that "losing freedom is like years passing by in hours" 41:27 Why did Matt, as a person within the system, start circumventing the Great Firewall? 43:50 Why is he still willing to discuss "sensitive" topics after experiencing tea-drinking? 46:10 Matt's family and friends around him don't understand his experience 50:13 After immigrating, I realized that true freedom is because of a sticker 53:31 Frances: An ordinary person who has drunk tea many times 55:20 "Invited for tea" for jointly signing a memorial for Koyama Kohei 58:07 One of the National Security officers who interviewed her was an "acquaintance" 01:00:52 What do the police want to know most? 01:06:35 Why is Frances still willing to sign petitions with her real name? 01:06:58 Words for those who have never drunk tea Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Original title: 和警察“喝茶”会经历什么？

Original description: <p>被警察约谈、训诫，听起来遥远而严肃，实际上，许多普通人都曾因为翻墙、发表言论、关注某些社会议题而遭遇警方的问询和谈话，这似乎是一个“全民喝茶时代”。“喝茶”究竟是怎么回事？当你接到警察的电话，你会面临什么？警察关心什么、又害怕什么？我们能如何处理“喝茶”的余波和复杂情绪？</p><br /><p>这一期节目中，三位来自不同城市的普通人讲述了自己的“喝茶”故事，人们会因为关心社会正义、坚持自己想要的生活方式和最真实的表达欲而被“喝茶”，讲述里有荒诞的细节、真实的恐惧、也有因为“喝茶”而被改变的人生命运。选择公开讲述这样的经历也需要勇气，其中一位讲述者说，“国家机器靠恐惧来统治人，但（讲出来）是为了把曾经害怕的感受给排除出去”。</p><br /><p>文字版：<a href="https://bit.ly/bmb-148-text" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/bmb-148-text</a></p><br /><p><strong>时间轴</strong>：</p><br /><p>01:48 Emily：因为在推特上骂习近平而“喝茶”</p><p>05:44 警察打印了Emily的推特言论，一条条念出来</p><p>08:47 喝茶过程中，警察给Emily推荐了一款VPN？</p><p>10:52 半年之后接到警察的电话，想象了最坏的后果，结果却出人意外</p><p>15:03 无法解释的动机：人会为了在乎社会公正而去做事情</p><p>19:59 警察很认真追查银行卡，试图寻找”境外势力“的证据</p><p>21:58 “喝茶”是生活在中国的一部分</p><p>29:09 “喝茶就像被打了一巴掌，你会感觉痛，但不代表你软弱“</p><p>31:14 Matt：第一次喝茶的惊险经历</p><p>35:07 24小时的喝茶经历，体会到“失去自由是度‘小时’如年”</p><p>41:27 Matt作为体制内人员为何开始翻墙?</p><p>43:50 经历过喝茶为什么还愿意讨论“敏感”议题？</p><p>46:10 家人和周围朋友不理解Matt的遭遇</p><p>50:13 移民之后，意识到真正的自由是因为一张贴纸</p><p>53:31 Frances：一位喝了许多次茶的普通人</p><p>55:20 因为联署纪念小山航平而喝茶</p><p>58:07 约谈的其中一位国宝是“熟人”</p><p>01:00:52 警察最想知道的是什么？</p><p>01:06:35 Frances为什么还愿意实名联署？</p><p>01:06:58 对没有喝过茶的人想说的话</p><hr /><p style="color: grey; font-size: 0.75em;"> Hosted on Acast. See <a href="https://acast.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="color: grey;" target="_blank">acast.com/privacy</a> for more information.</p>

Xia Chaochuan was arrested twice during the White Paper Movement. During the 2023 Shanghai Halloween, photos of TA walking on the street covered in white paper were widely circulated by the media. In mid-March, Yuan Li met Xia Chaochuan during an offline meetup in the Netherlands. TA left China for the Netherlands in early 2024 and has since been deeply involved in and observing the overseas civil society ecosystem of China. In this episode, Xia Chaochuan talks about their growing up experiences, how TA gradually understood the complexity of the Chinese reality in different stages and different predicaments, as well as the risks and limitations faced by activists. How does TA view the connection between trauma and action, and how does TA choose to come forward with their real name when fear has never really dissipated? In the Netherlands, TA was embraced by a friendly community atmosphere and continues to question "what to do next." TA learns from the Tibetan and Uyghur communities, hoping to connect with more mainstream and professional social movement contexts. For Chinese activists, can we find the social movement traditions that once existed? Can those fractured experiences still be reconnected? As a generation that grew up with the White Paper Movement, how can we rebuild an ideal civil society? Text version: https://bit.ly/bmb-147-text Timeline: 01:19 A gender studies course that changed Xia Chaochuan 02:58 The dilemma of action seen after returning to China in 2020 - "Be loud and be quiet" 06:03 Trauma response after the White Paper Movement 09:24 Halloween 2020, walking on the street covered in white paper, people's reactions 12:10 Community ecology observed overseas 17:53 White Paper Movement 2nd Anniversary Rally 21:18 Inviting Tibetans and Uyghurs to participate, "returning the stage to them instead of the Han Chinese themselves" 25:58 Movement experience learned from the Tibetan and Uyghur communities 27:47 Hanging a banner in a location where Xi Jinping will appear 29:53 Fear is a lifelong trauma "If anything makes us not afraid, it's a lie" 34:22 Deciding to use real name, the price is not being able to return to China, but "the feeling of not being afraid is very important" 36:22 Reflections on overseas communities, both supported by the "bubble circle" and wanting to break the "bubble circle" 43:28 "What drives me to do social movements is not happiness, but a lot of pain" 46:24 What counts as action? Is eating hot pot, knitting sweaters, and showing movies action? 49:20 The commitment of Tibetans and Uyghurs to social movements is very high 53:54 In summer camp group photos, Chinese people always quit 55:16 Is anonymity an obstacle to moving forward? 57:52 "I no longer think about whether China will change, but how social movements will continue" Guest Recommendations: "Made in China: Women Workers in a Global Factory" by Pun Ngai "Slaughterhouse-Five" by Kurt Vonnegut "Kim Jiyoung, Born 1982" by Cho Nam-joo Related Podcast Links: EP-125 Two Years Later, How Do We View the White Paper Movement? https://bumingbai.net/2024/11/30/ep-125-baizhi/ EP-074 Teacher Li: The White Paper Movement is a Beginning, Not an End https://bumingbai.net/2023/11/25/ep-074-whyyoutouzhele/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Original title: 夏巢川：白纸一代如何重建公民社会？

Original description: <p>夏巢川在白纸运动期间两度被捕，2023年的上海万圣节，TA在身上贴满白纸走上街头的照片，被媒体广泛传播。3月中旬，袁莉在荷兰的线下见面会期间见到了夏巢川，TA在2024年初离开中国来到了荷兰，自此深度参与和观察中国的海外公民社会生态。</p><br /><p>本期节目中，夏巢川讲述了自己的成长经历，讲述了Ta如何在不同阶段、不同困境中，逐步理解中国现实的复杂性，以及行动者所面对的风险与局限。TA如何看待创伤和行动之间的联系，又是如何在恐惧从未真正消散的情况下，选择实名、站出来？</p><br /><p>在荷兰，TA被友善的社群氛围所接住，也不断追问“下一步该怎么做”。TA从藏人和维吾尔人社群中学习经验，希望与更主流的、更专业的社会运动脉络接轨。而对于中国行动者来说，我们是否能找回曾经存在过的社会运动传统？那些断裂的经验，是否仍然可能被重新链接？作为白纸成长起来的一代人，如何重建一个理想的公民社会？</p><br /><p>文字版：<a href="https://bit.ly/bmb-147-text" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/bmb-147-text</a></p><br /><p><strong>时间轴：</strong></p><p>01:19 改变夏巢川的一堂性别研究课程</p><p>02:58 2020年回国后看到的行动困境——“既要大声，也要小声”</p><p>06:03 白纸运动之后的创伤反应</p><p>09:24 2020年万圣节，贴满白纸走上街头，人们的反应</p><p>12:10 在海外观察到的社群生态</p><p>17:53 白纸两周年集会现场</p><p>21:18 邀请藏人和维吾尔人参加，“把舞台还给他们而不是汉人自己“</p><p>25:58 从藏人和维吾尔人社群学习到的运动经验</p><p>27:47 在习近平会出现的位置挂一个横幅</p><p>29:53 恐惧是伴随一生的创伤 “如果有什么东西让我们不恐惧，那是假话”</p><p>34:22 决定实名，代价是不能回国，但是”不恐惧的感受很重要“</p><p>36:22 对海外社群的反思，既被“泡泡圈”支持，又很想打破”泡泡圈“</p><p>43:28 “推动我做社会运动的不是快乐，而是很多痛苦”</p><p>46:24 什么才算行动？吃火锅、打毛线、放电影是行动吗？</p><p>49:20 藏人和维吾尔人对社会运动投入的承诺非常高</p><p>53:54 夏令营的合影环境，中国人总是退出</p><p>55:16&nbsp;匿名对于往前一步是障碍吗？</p><p>57:52 “我不再想中国会不会改变，而是想社会运动如何延续”</p><br /><p><strong>嘉宾推荐：</strong></p><p>《中国制造：全球化工厂下的女工》潘毅</p><p><a href="https://book.douban.com/subject/1395228/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">《五号屠场》库尔特·冯内古特</a></p><p><a href="https://book.douban.com/subject/36328042/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">《狂女的逆袭》闵瑞瑛</a></p><br /><p>相关播客链接：</p><p><a href="https://bumingbai.net/2024/11/30/ep-125-baizhi/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">EP-125 两年后，我们如何看待白纸运动？</a></p><p><a href="https://bumingbai.net/2023/11/25/ep-074-whyyoutouzhele/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">EP-074 李老师：白纸运动是开始，不是结束</a></p><hr /><p style="color: grey; font-size: 0.75em;"> Hosted on Acast. See <a href="https://acast.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="color: grey;" target="_blank">acast.com/privacy</a> for more information.</p>

In March 2025, Trump signed an executive order to shut down and lay off staff at Voice of America (VOA) and Radio Free Asia (RFA), leaving many journalists suddenly unemployed. This is the third episode of the "bumingbai podcast" series "My Story with Enemy Radio." In the first two episodes, Professor Xu Chenggang and four young people talked about how these "enemy radios" influenced their careers and lives. In this episode, we invited Alex, the editor-in-chief of *Wainao*, and Kris Zheng Lejie, a Hong Kong reporter who writes for VOA, to review how this crisis affected their individuals and teams. They talked about unfinished documentaries, suspended special projects, and forced suspension of cooperation, and also talked about the professional feeling of journalism as a "calling" rather than a "choice." The program also attempts to answer some bigger questions: Can news organizations that rely on congressional funding really maintain independence? For some young journalists who are still willing to write, record, and report in Chinese, is there still room to continue writing? **Timeline:** 01:42 This is a shutdown that was "prepared for, but still much faster than expected" 03:17 Two days ago, the editor was still saying "keep up the hard work," and two days later, everyone was on administrative leave. 08:00 "Calling everyone every day and saying sorry" 10:43 Who are the reporters at *Wainao*, and why are they willing to risk working for *Wainao*? 12:39 A reporter's migration path from Hong Kong to the UK 16:27 Why was *Wainao* established, and what kind of era issues does it respond to? 20:39 *Wainao*'s important record: Rescuing the history of the decade of women's rights movement that was cut off. 22:36 The original intention of *Wainao*'s launch was not to confront Little Pinks 27:06 How Hong Kong reporters continue to report on Hong Kong by relying on VOA 31:22 A friend's young daughter learns Cantonese through VOA's Cantonese program 36:07 Within Radio Free Asia, *Wainao* is a cool kid! 37:58 After the media disappears, who will occupy the space for speech? 40:19 Self-media is not equal to institutional media. Self-media comments are based on facts reported by institutional media. 41:11 Save the reports you like, the website may be taken down or deleted. 42:38 Talking about the future: Alex believes that "there is still hope in the darkness," and Kris may look for a job to make ends meet. 45:16 Their farewell Related podcast links: [EP-144 Young people who eavesdrop on "enemy radio"](https://bumingbai.net/2025/04/02/ep-144-young/) [EP-143 Xu Chenggang: What does Voice of America mean to people behind the Iron Curtain?](https://bumingbai.net/2025/03/29/ep-143-xuchenggang/) [EP-140 Li Si Pan, Fan Wenxin: Why do we need news media?](https://bumingbai.net/2025/03/09/ep-140-xinwenmeiti/) [EP-019 Jiang Xue/Zhang Jieping: What happened to Chinese media in the past 10 years?](https://bumingbai.net/2022/10/02/ep-019-jiang-xue-zhang-jieping/) Official website: [bumingbai.net](https://www.bumingbai.net/) Donation link: [https://bit.ly/bmb-donate](https://bit.ly/bmb-donate) Twitter: @[bumingbaipod](https://twitter.com/bumingbaipod) Bluesky: [@bumingbai.net](https://bsky.app/profile/bumingbai.net) Mastodon: [@bumingbaipod](https://g0v.social/@bumingbaipod) Telegram: [@bmbpod](https://t.me/bmbpod) Hosted on Acast. See [acast.com/privacy](https://acast.com/privacy) for more information.

Original title: 歪脑主编与VOA记者：未完成的报道

Original description: <p>2025年3月，特朗普签署行政令，美国之音（VOA）与自由亚洲电台（RFA）停摆、裁员，众多记者骤然失业。这是“不明白播客”系列节目《我与敌台的故事》的第三期。前两期中，许成钢教授和四位年轻人讲述了这些“敌台”如何影响了他们的职业与人生。<br /><br />这一期，我们请来《歪脑》主编Alex和为美国之音撰稿的香港记者Kris郑乐捷，回顾这场危机如何影响了他们的个人与团队。他们谈到了未完成的纪录片、被中止的专题、被迫暂停的合作，也谈到了新闻作为一种“召唤”而非“选择”的职业感。<br /><br />节目也试图回应一些更大的问题：依靠国会拨款的新闻机构，真的能保持独立性吗？对于一些仍愿意用中文写作、记录、报道的年轻记者来说，还有没有继续写下去的空间？<br /><br /><b>时间轴：</b><br /><br />01:42 这是一场“有准备、但仍然比想象快很多”的停摆<br />03:17 两天前编辑还在说“继续努力工作啊”，两天后所有人都行政休假<br />08:00 “每天都在给大家打电话，然后说对不起”<br />10:43 《歪脑》的记者们是谁，他们为什么愿意冒险为《歪脑》工作<br />12:39 从香港到英国，一个记者的迁徙路径<br />16:27 《歪脑》为什么成立，它回应什么样的时代问题？<br />20:39 《歪脑》的重要记录：抢救断代的十年女权运动史<br />22:36《歪脑》上线的初衷，不是与小粉红对抗<br />27:06 香港记者如何依靠VOA继续报道香港<br />31:22 朋友家的小女儿，通过美国之音的广东话节目来学广东话<br />36:07 在自由亚洲电台内部，《歪脑》是一个cool kid（酷小孩）！<br />37:58 媒体消失之后，言论空间会被谁占领？<br />40:19 自媒体不等于机构媒体，自媒体的评论是基于机构媒体报道的事实<br />41:11 喜欢的报道自己存下来，网站会被下架或删改<br />42:38 谈前路：Alex认为”黑暗之中还有希望“，kris可能会去找工作兼顾生计<br />45:16 TA们的告别</p><p><br />相关播客链接：<br /><a href="https://bumingbai.net/2025/04/02/ep-144-young/">EP-144 那些偷听“敌台”的年轻人</a><br /><a href="https://bumingbai.net/2025/03/29/ep-143-xuchenggang/">EP-143 许成钢：美国之音对铁幕背后的人意味着什么？</a><br /><a href="https://bumingbai.net/2025/03/09/ep-140-xinwenmeiti/">EP-140 李思磐、范文欣：我们为什么需要新闻媒体？</a><br /><a href="https://bumingbai.net/2022/10/02/ep-019-jiang-xue-zhang-jieping/">EP-019 江雪/张洁平：中国媒体过去10年发生了什么？</a></p><p><br />官网：<a href="https://www.bumingbai.net/">bumingbai.net</a><br />捐赠链接：<a href="https://bit.ly/bmb-donate">https://bit.ly/bmb-donate</a><br />推特：@<a href="https://twitter.com/bumingbaipod">bumingbaipod</a><br />蓝天：<a href="https://bsky.app/profile/bumingbai.net">@bumingbai.net</a><br />Mastodon：<a href="https://g0v.social/@bumingbaipod">@bumingbaipod</a><br />Telegram：<a href="https://t.me/bmbpod">@bmbpod</a></p><hr /><p style="color: grey; font-size: 0.75em;"> Hosted on Acast. See <a href="https://acast.com/privacy" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="color: grey;" target="_blank">acast.com/privacy</a> for more information.</p>

2025年4月2日，美国总统川普宣布了一项迄今为止最广泛的关税政策，几乎波及全球所有国家和经济体（连南极附近无人岛上的企鹅都未能幸免），对中国的关税被提高了34%。全球股市应声大跌。新一轮贸易战正在迅速升级。作为回应，中国宣布自4月10日起，对所有原产于美国的进口商品，在现有关税基础上加征34%。川普随即要求中国撤销对美国的报复性关税，否则将从8日开始面临50%的额外关税。增加的关税将使川普上任以来对中国进口产品征收的总关税达到104% 。关税听起来遥远又抽象，但它的后果实实在在地影响每一个人的生活。本期节目邀请麻省理工学院斯隆管理学院黄亚生教授来谈谈：他为什么说川普的关税政策是一场经济领域的“珍珠港”事件？打着“重振制造业”“减少贸易逆差”旗号出台的关税政策，真的能帮川普实现他的经济雄心吗？这项政策会如何破坏全球贸易体系？面对美国的施压，欧洲和中国应如何应对？在新的关税压力之下，中国的出口贸易将走向何方？普通人可以做些什么来减少自己的损失？欢迎收听本期节目。文字版：https://bit.ly/bmb-145-text时间轴：02:30 川普的对等关税理论，相当于“你在餐馆吃了一盘菜，就必须再卖给餐馆一盘菜”03:47 为什么说美国相当于发起经济上的珍珠港事件？07:24 过去，美元的霸主地位是如何形成的？14:32 川普的关税政策是合理的吗/自相矛盾之处23:18 “负责任的政党应该站出来，当这个人正在破坏国家的法制”32:49 通货膨胀的结果可以用税收来抵消吗？34:47 “美国面临了一个七十年代末期以后从未面临的局面”36:51 美国现在的问题不在于经济，而在于政治39:27 一切取决于美国明年的中期选举42:35 美国市场的重要性：全球最大的消费和服务市场45:16 国际经济分工是奇妙的功能，川普造成了永久性的破坏49:41 欧洲和中国的关系可能走向何方？55:21 中国应该让欧盟看到你在俄乌问题上的建设性01:00:18 应不应该反制？“不如利用这个完全无法避免的损失”01:04:40 对东南亚提高关税是为围堵中国吗？01:15:50 现在去追求民族主义的目标，经济成本是在增加的01:19:58 美国人应该借由此了解专制体制是怎么一回事儿01:21:06 四年以后，美国还能回到正轨吗？01:24:36 普通人可以做什么？嘉宾推荐：《Abundance》Ezra Klein、Derek Thompson《The Future of Freedom: Illiberal Democracy at Home and Abroad》Fareed Zakaria相关播客单集：EP-046 黄亚生：科举制度如何影响中国的未来官网：bumingbai.net捐赠链接：https://bit.ly/bmb-donate推特：@bumingbaipod蓝天：@bumingbai.netMastodon：@bumingbaipodTelegram：@bmbpod Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

本周，不明白播客继续播出“我与敌台的故事”系列第二期，对话四位年轻听众。TA们之中，有人在一年前依旧认为中国是个民主国家，有人需要收听“敌台”监测舆情，有人则成长在“反贼”家庭，六七岁已经开始听“敌台”......和上一期节目中的许成钢教授得自学无线电技术才能收听“敌台”不同，这一代年轻人们成长于互联网时代，只是“防火墙”依然存在。在高墙之下，TA们如何接触到境外媒体？又如何处理这些和主流声音不一样的信息？美国之音和自由亚洲电台的新闻如何影响了TA们的世界观和价值观？面对这两家媒体逐渐停运的现实，TA们还能依靠什么渠道关心中国正在发生的事情？文字版：https://bit.ly/bmb-144-text时间轴：02:30 John：用自带翻墙的浏览器看美国之音04:06 BBC如何颠覆中共官媒叙事？08:16 学校里不把翻墙看外媒当作禁忌的年代10:58 “先把网线拔了，先把钱断了”，然后呢？15:01  Charlotte：无法政治出柜，生活无比孤独21:19 老公为什么不让她听美国之音？25:38 玄逸：最穷的时候银行帐户只剩三位数33:34 翻墙为什么是工作的一部分？37:57 子露：在“反贼”家庭里长大39:53 敏感时期电台会有杂音？41:19 “9·11事件”发生，“全班同学除了我都在欢呼”45:44 美国之音的落幕“太不具备传奇色彩”相关播客链接：EP-143 许成钢：美国之音对铁幕背后的人意味着什么？EP-140 李思磐、范文欣：我们为什么需要新闻媒体？官网：bumingbai.net捐赠链接：https://bit.ly/bmb-donate推特：@bumingbaipod蓝天：@bumingbai.netMastodon：@bumingbaipodTelegram：@bmbpod Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

3月中旬，美国总统川普签署一项新的行政命令，受此影响，美国之音和自由亚洲电台开始停运或减员。据统计，美国之音和自由亚洲电台每周覆盖的听众数量，分别是3.6 亿人和6800万人。长期以来，这两家媒体向包括中国在内众多新闻自由受到限制的国家或地区播送新闻。人们为什么要听美国之音和自由亚洲这些“敌台”？美国之音们究竟都影响了哪些人？它们的停播又意味着什么？不明白播客将在这两周推出三期系列播客“我与敌台的故事”，分别邀请许成钢教授、四位年轻听众、《歪脑》主编Alex和为美国之音工作的撰稿人郑乐捷一同分享TA们的经历。这一期节目，斯坦福大学中国经济与制度研究中心资深研究员许成钢教授，讲述了他从15岁开始自制收音机听敌台的故事：他如何在黑龙江冰天雪地的农场里想方设法收听敌台？敌台们如何影响和启蒙了他？美国之音的记者又是如何避开警察采访他的父亲？以及美国之音这些敌台，对于铁幕背后的人们意味着什么？文字版：https://bit.ly/bmb-143-text时间轴：01:54 第一次收听敌台后母亲的严厉警告06:41 在农场公放各国敌台的音乐，“农民都不在乎”10:40 在中俄边境上听王明讲延安整风15:26 如何在农场里偷听敌台？18:59 为什么被打成反革命，收听敌台的证据怎么坐实？24:37 当时收听敌台的人都在听什么？32:38 重重监视下，美国之音的两次冒险采访经历40:38 美国之音推动了冷战结束？46:46 停掉美国之音是将言论阵地让给中共吗？相关链接：节目中谈及美国之音对许成钢的父亲许良英葬礼的报道相关播客链接：EP-142 张洁平、Ian Johnson：川普新政下的欧洲、中国与公民社会EP-140 李思磐、范文欣：我们为什么需要新闻媒体？官网：bumingbai.net捐赠链接：https://bit.ly/bmb-donate推特：@bumingbaipod蓝天：@bumingbai.netMastodon：@bumingbaipodTelegram：@bmbpod Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

过去两个月，无论身处美国、欧洲、台湾还是中国，没有人会对川普新政无动于衷。川普政府决定撤回对外援助，解散了美国国际开发署（USAID），导致众多人权组织都面临关停的风险，最近川普政府还停掉了对美国之音与自由亚洲电台的资助。这一系列举动，都对中国乃至全球的公民社会造成了重大的冲击。上周末，不明白播客在荷兰阿姆斯特丹举办的一场线下活动中，袁莉与张洁平、Ian Johnson就以“川普新政下的欧洲、中国与公民社会”为主题，一起讨论了：美国的对外援助如何影响公民社会的建设？在这样的时刻，公民社会应该如何应对？在海外参与公民运动可以帮助改变中国吗？身为普通人的我们又该如何自处？嘉宾张洁平是端传媒的创始主编，先后创办了去中心化的内容创作与讨论平台Matters以及独立书店「飞地」，这家中文书店已经开到了泰国、荷兰；Ian Johnson是普利策奖获得者，他创办了「中国民间档案馆」——一个收录了众多有关中国政治运动和个人命运的文件、档案、书、杂志和纪录片的网站。文字版：https://bit.ly/bmb-142-text时间轴：03:29 川普新政对嘉宾们有什么影响？07:45 如何看待对川普“表忠心”的行为？13:05 为什么说中国人不必觉得自己懦弱？17:10 为什么这么多机构拿美国的钱？25:08 公民社会应该如何应对？34:29 海外参与公民运动能改变中国吗？44:50 无力感中如何坚持自己？相关链接：飞地书店中国民间档案馆相关播客链接：EP-092 张洁平：活出你想要的中国EP-067 Ian Johnson/江雪：《星火》——对抗官方叙事的地下历史学家官网：bumingbai.net捐赠链接：https://bit.ly/bmb-donate推特：@bumingbaipod蓝天：@bumingbai.netMastodon：@bumingbaipodTelegram：@bmbpod Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

中纪委2025年2月底发布的工作报告显示，2024年有214.8万人被批评教育、处分、追究刑责，比上一年增加超过40万，立案人数、中管干部处理与行贿案件等数据均呈现上升趋势，我们应该如何解读这份报告？数字的上升是否说明习近平反腐“越反越腐”？从肃清政敌到开始清洗亲信，习近平反腐为什么停不下来？“妄议中央”“私自阅读违禁出版物”等罪名的背后说明了哪些问题？本期节目嘉宾是美国加州克莱蒙特·麦肯纳学院政治学教授裴敏欣，裴教授的研究方向是专制政权与威权体制的转型，他刚刚发表了一篇英文论文，题目是《从肃清到管控：习近平反腐的近期转向》。文字版：https://bit.ly/bmb-141-text时间轴：00:53 习近平上台之后反腐越反越多吗？06:50 习近平为什么要在8年内三次修改党纪？10:05 反腐是政治清洗吗？16:30 中共的官员为什么爱搞迷信？21:41 反腐宣传为何要妖魔化腐败官员？26:57 究竟有多少官员被送进了监狱？32:24 习近平反腐带来的结果是什么？36:49 我们应该怎样看待中共的官员？40:05 嘉宾推荐节目提及的专栏文章：权力、金钱和性：反腐纪录片《零容忍》揭露中共不堪家丑嘉宾推荐：《李慎之口述往事》刘志琴 / 王建勋 / 王学泰 / 王毅《他们以为他们是自由的》米尔顿·迈耶YouTube频道：Perspective相关播客：EP-106 Mike Forsythe：中共高层官员如何隐藏巨额财富？EP-025 裴敏欣：习近平权力的悖论官网：bumingbai.net捐赠链接：https://bit.ly/bmb-donate推特：@bumingbaipod蓝天：@bumingbai.netMastodon：@bumingbaipodTelegram：@bmbpod Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

在中国，媒体缺位已是常态，“新闻已死”成为现实，主流媒体要么遵循“党媒姓党”，要么被公众视为“谣媒”；在美国，川普称机构媒体是“Fake News”，部分公众丧失对媒体的信任，而社交媒体上，有权有势的人成为不实消息的策源地。公众该如何面对这个后真相时代？机构媒体何去何从？本期节目找来两位资深记者讨论一个古老的话题：我们为什么需要新闻媒体？李思磐曾在《南方都市报》深度新闻部任调查记者，现在是斯坦福大学访问学者，范文欣曾在新华社、《纽约时报》、彭博新闻社与和《华尔街日报》工作，现在是香港大学新闻及传媒研究中心兼职讲师。两位嘉宾具体讨论的问题包括：媒体为什么总是关注负面新闻？记者是在吃“人血馒头”吗？社交媒体和机构媒体的区别是什么？合格的新闻产品应该遵循哪些准则？中国的新闻环境发生了哪些变化？……文字版：https://bit.ly/bmb-140-text时间轴：02:04 如何看待对主流媒体的污名化？06:24 媒体为何总是报道负面新闻？13:54 记者是在吃‘人血馒头’吗？18:41 公众为什么不再愿意接受采访？22:56 今天媒体报道面临一个怎样的环境？26:24 匿名报道背后的现实与带来的伤害是什么？32:28 重大事件为何需要机构媒体？41:15 记者为什么强调一定要去现场？46:24 社交媒体能够取代机构媒体吗？49:43 机构媒体遵循的报道流程有何意义？55:56 中国大多数人缺乏媒体素养？01:03:14 嘉宾推荐范文欣 #不明白播客嘉宾推荐《Deadline : a memoir》James Reston《个人历史》凯瑟琳·格雷厄姆《最危险的总编辑》本·布莱德利电影《她说》玛丽亚·施拉德柴静：我亲历的重庆打黑李思磐 #不明白播客嘉宾推荐《德國教育的公民思辨課-過濾氣泡、假新聞與說謊媒體──我們如何避免被操弄？》《新闻的十大基本原则》比尔·科瓦齐  汤姆·罗森斯蒂尔《真相》比尔·科瓦齐  汤姆·罗森斯蒂尔电视剧《报社》汤姆·沃恩官网：bumingbai.net捐赠链接：https://bit.ly/bmb-donate推特：@bumingbaipod蓝天：@bumingbai.netMastodon：@bumingbaipodTelegram：@bmbpod Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

川普上任两个多月，从关税战、出生公民权、马斯克的政府效率部甚至到纽约的拥堵收费......行政命令多到让人眼花缭乱，几乎占满媒体的版面。同时，他在对待欧洲盟友与乌克兰的态度也与以往截然不同，上周川普与泽连斯基的会面最终不欢而散，许多人都认为这是一个注定将会记入历史的时刻。在这个动荡的历史关头，不少学者的评论尤其悲观。比如北京大学法学院张千帆教授发表了一篇流传甚广的文章《美利坚沦陷的政治自然法根源》，其中写到，“如果这个趋势继续下去，美国法治、民主乃至自由的丧钟即将敲响。”纽约时报专栏作者托马斯·弗里德曼也写了一篇文章，题目是《我们所熟知的那个美国将不复存在》。他说，“美国一直以来赖以捍卫的那些基石价值观、盟友关系以及真理，如今都已岌岌可危——或者说可以用来买卖。”我们需要为今天美国的现状感到焦虑乃至绝望吗？川普眼花缭乱的行政命令背后的逻辑是什么？如何看待自由派的川普支持者？美国的民主故事还能讲下去吗？本期嘉宾刘宗坤是退休律师、作家和旅行家，他移民美国已经超过十年，如今住在德州。本期节目中，他从美国的法律、政府体系设定和民主传统各个方面考证，告诉我们应该如何面对川普制造的政治焦虑。文字版：https://bit.ly/bmb-139-text时间轴：04:39 美国普通人如何处理政治分歧？09:40 川普特别会利用人的焦虑情绪？20:08 川普政策的支持率为什么并不低？22:06 美国左派针对川普新政做了什么？26:03 美国的民主故事还能讲下去吗？30:25 我们应该对美国现状感到绝望吗?32:59 如何看待支持川普的中国“自由派”？36:03 民主是否能活过2025年？47:58 动荡的历史关头，普通人如何自处？54:07 嘉宾推荐嘉宾推荐：《沉思录》奥勒留《光明之子与黑暗之子》莱因霍尔德•尼布尔《美丽人生》罗伯托·贝尼尼相关链接：欢迎点击关注刘宗坤的YouTube频道“徒步的骑手”，关注他对美国政治的更多观察。官网：bumingbai.net捐赠链接：https://bit.ly/bmb-donate推特：@bumingbaipod蓝天：@bumingbai.netMastodon：@bumingbaipodTelegram：@bmbpod Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

周一联合国大会针对乌克兰问题草案两次投票中，美国抛弃了长期盟友欧洲，与俄罗斯站在一起投票。这是欧洲与美国裂痕的升级。此前，川普与普京通话，计划展开俄乌和平谈判，却把欧洲排除在外；紧接着是美国副总统万斯在慕尼黑安全会议上的讲话宣告了川普政府与欧洲极右翼政党站在了一起；川普甚至称乌克兰总统泽连斯基为“独裁者。”不少媒体宣告，维持战后和平与稳定的跨大西洋联盟已经瓦解，欧洲国家失去了政治制度和价值理念上的盟友，更失去了安全上的保护伞，他们需要自己维护自己的安全了。有人批评川普政府不负责任，有人对欧洲国家恨铁不成钢，批评欧洲是拒绝长大的“巨婴”。这两天有篇文章在网上流传，叫《张伦与友人谈批评欧洲》，文中说欧洲人需要深刻检讨，努力改正，但很多人对欧洲的批评也是不公道的，对一些基本背景缺乏了解。文章的作者张伦是法国塞尔奇—巴黎大学教授，他长期关注地缘政治、大国关系和制度文明转型。这期节目我们邀请张伦教授来谈一下，他如何看待目前欧洲面临的剧变，欧洲国家如何应对川普政府的挑战，“跨大西洋联盟”何去何从，欧洲有可能担起自立自强，乃至保卫乌克兰的重担吗，以及在这个动荡与分裂的世界作为普通人应该自处？文字版：https://bit.ly/bmb-138-text时间轴：01:42 川普政府对欧洲人造成怎样的心理冲击？06:59 欧洲军事防卫弱，要怪美国吗？14:55 重建欧洲武装力量的时机到了吗？17:57 欧洲与美国比，谁支持乌克兰的力度更大？19:44 美国排斥欧洲参与和谈会有什么后果？22:04 联合国投票，美俄联合对抗欧洲意味着什么？27:35 美国与欧洲割裂，中国应该感到高兴吗？32:29 德国大选极右翼政党崛起会带来什么影响？36:16 欧洲有可能担起保卫乌克兰的重担吗？39:58 普通人如何在动荡与分裂的世界自处？44:29 嘉宾推荐嘉宾推荐：《现代性的扩展与危机：全球化、信息技术、认同及其他 —— 关于如何看待这个动荡与分裂的世界的一次漫谈》张伦《论美国的民主》托克维尔官网：bumingbai.net捐赠链接：https://bit.ly/bmb-donate推特：@bumingbaipod蓝天：@bumingbai.netMastodon：@bumingbaipodTelegram：@bmbpod Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

本周一，习近平出席民营企业座谈会的消息引发广泛关注，而此前在DeepSeeK的影响下，沉寂已久的港股和A股重新活跃，这是近段时间中国经济最重要的两个变量。习近平为什么要在这个时候召开民营企业座谈会？DeepSeek与这场座谈会之间有何关联？这是否意味着中国的经济政策开始纠偏了？本期节目我们请来斯坦福大学中国经济与制度研究中心高级研究员许成钢教授。许教授不仅长期研究中国政治与经济制度，同时对科技和AI也非常有研究。他曾在2018年，在长江商学院与人工智能专家合作建立了人工智能与制度研究中心，并担任该中心的主任。他还与国内人工智能专家及斯坦福人工智能指数团队合作，收集数据，制作中国人工智能指数。另外，3月16日不明白播客会在荷兰阿姆斯特丹举办一场听众见面会，袁莉会和张洁平、Ian Johnson一起聊一下《川普新政下的欧洲、中国与公民社会》，这是我们第一次在欧洲举办线下活动，现场还会有听众问答环节。感兴趣的听众可以点击链接报名参与本次见面会：https://forms.gle/7j7yxg2buAx3KHG5A（目前报名人数已满，后续有名额释出会第一时间通知）文字版：https://bit.ly/bmb-137-text时间轴：02:45 习近平为什么要召开民营企业座谈会？06:27 许成钢如何看待DeepSeek的成功？11:04 今天人工智能的水平还不如一只猫？16:19 第四次产业革命的核心要素是什么？22:12 举国之力能保证DeepSeek成功吗？26:57 DeepSeek的生态会为中国GDP带来巨大贡献吗？30:46 DeepSeek真的能救中共吗？34:30 民营企业座谈会能够为经济带来起色吗？39:00 中共有可能做出根本性的政策转变吗？42:11 嘉宾推荐嘉宾推荐：《我看见的世界》李飞飞《富裕的杠杆：技术革新与经济进步》乔尔·莫基尔（Joel Mokyr）《制度基因──中國制度與極權主義制度的起源》许成钢相关播客：EP-134 王维嘉：DeepSeek对中美AI竞争意味着什么？EP-036 许成钢：从 ChatGPT 看中美人工智能竞争官网：bumingbai.net捐赠链接：https://bit.ly/bmb-donate推特：@bumingbaipod蓝天：@bumingbai.netMastodon：@bumingbaipodTelegram：@bmbpod Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

在AI与地缘政治的大背景下，半导体行业成为这个时代最举足轻重的行业，其中绕不开的则是张忠谋与台积电。24年底，张忠谋历时6年亲笔撰写的《张忠谋自传：下册》出版，本期不明白播客邀请到《天下杂志》总主笔陈良榕来和我们谈谈，张忠谋如何将台积电打造成台湾的“护国神山”？台积电的成功与台湾政府的支持有多大关系？张忠谋的身份认同是什么？中国有可能复制一个台积电吗？文字版：https://bit.ly/bmb-136-text时间轴：02:10 张忠谋为什么被称为“肯德基爷爷”？07:00 作为台积电创始人，张忠谋为什么要“裸退”？15:42 张忠谋的身份认同是美国人还是台湾人？21:05 为什么说张忠谋不算一个“很有勇气的的人”？31:32 芯片代工模式为什么如此重要？35:14 台积电的成功与台湾政府的支持有多大关系？40:08 台积电为什么能够打败英特尔和三星？43:26 张忠谋相信台积电能够保护台湾吗？46:20 中国有可能复制一个台积电吗？55:27 嘉宾推荐嘉宾推荐《台灣戰後經濟發展的源起》瞿宛文《芯片战争》（CHIP WAR）Chris Miller《晶片島上的光芒》林宏文官网：bumingbai.net捐赠链接：https://bit.ly/bmb-donate推特：@bumingbaipod蓝天：@bumingbai.netMastodon：@bumingbaipodTelegram：@bmbpod Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.