The guest today is Ming Chaoping (Xiao Ming/Leon), an AI application entrepreneur.
In 2024, the AI narrative was still about large models. *Commercial Interview* interviewed Yang Zhilin, Wang Xiaochuan, Li Kaifu and other founders of large model companies. In the blink of an eye, the AI narrative in 2025 has become about application companies and Agents—**a new protagonist has appeared.**
This episode, like the previous "3-Hour Interview with Xiao Hong, Founder of Manus: The World is Not a Linear Extrapolation, Be an Important Variable in the Game", **also comes from the front lines of "AI application explosion" and "Agent explosion."**
In China's venture capital circle, Ming Chaoping is an entrepreneur who has received relatively consensus capital support from the very beginning. Born in 1995, he has worked on products at OnePlus, ByteDance, and Moonshot. This is his first time as CEO, and the first product he launched is called YouWare.
He has some connections with our previous two guests: one is Yang Zhilin. In 2023, he had an in-depth conversation with Yang Zhilin for 10 hours, from day to night, and decided to join Moonshot after the conversation. The other is Xiao Hong. Sometimes I hear people in the venture capital industry compare Xiao Ming and Xiao Hong, saying that they both belong to **"Hands-on, product-oriented entrepreneurs."**
Is this the case? Today's 3-hour interview hopes to present Xiao Ming's true state. Whether it is true is up to everyone to decide.
However, although they are often associated, Xiao Hong and Xiao Ming have never met.
Looking forward to 2025, we will progress together with AI : )
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03:16 Quick Q&A; begins
**Those scattered, rebellious, and frustrating teenage years**
04:36 Childhood and teenage fragments
06:52 I debated at Wuhan University, especially good at the fourth speaker
13:00 The most important thing I learned from debating: **"Always have a third-party perspective, debating is not about convincing your opponent," "Turn yourself into an idiot in 1 second" (by Zhang Xiaolong)**
14:40 I basically slept in the lab for the last two years of college, immersed in the "Intelligent Vehicle Competition" and won the national prize
19:43 **Oh, so miserable, a painful experience - I was the team member who lost the most competitions and also won the most best debater awards**
23:06 That was the senior's retirement match, and I still feel very guilty today
**The first three stops on the road to product manager: OnePlus, ByteDance, Moonshot**
26:37 First stop on the road to product manager: OnePlus mentor took us to take the subway and go shopping
30:18 "Experience is not data": Battery life data and battery life experience are not equal. 95-100% and 0-5% battery level are the times when users are most sensitive and anxious about the experience.
33:58 Second stop on the road to product manager: I was very uncomfortable when I first went to ByteDance and felt like I was a rookie
37:42 **What are the disadvantages of ByteDance's product methodology? "It will wipe out many flashes of inspiration"**
39:35 "Data is the 'rearview mirror of driving', but it cannot guide you forward"
41:03 **ByteDance doesn't have Steve Jobs, ByteDance doesn't have Zhang Xiaolong, but ByteDance has Yiming** - Yiming has talked to some very small startup teams.
42:08 What do you think of the fact that many entrepreneurs have emerged from ByteDance in recent years, but none have achieved great success?
43:28 **I talked with Yang Zhilin for 10 hours in 2023**, talking about music, art, hobbies, products, and past experiences. It was really 8 pm when we were going to eat pizza, and I said, "Why don't you tell me about the technology?"
50:14 The popularity and sudden stop of the overseas product Noisee
01:03:03 ByteDance was able to become ByteDance because it coincided with several important variables of the times (the popularity of mobile devices, bandwidth speed, recommendation engine)
**Jump off the big ship and start a business!**
01:05:05 Immediately encountered the bitter lesson
01:11:59 The instinct to carve patterns, uncontrollably giving it more scaffolding, you will run counter to the biggest variable of this era
01:12:45 Suddenly realized that something was wrong - the product was stopped before it was launched
01:13:18 Insomnia epiphany: **One of the key indicators in the AI era is "token consumption speed", and we must pursue "per token valuation"**
01:16:33 **The "shell" is underestimated, it should be called "container" and "environment"** (the environment is the reactor of people)
01:17:52 It is quite irresponsible to only give users a Chatbot input box
01:21:18 Today's Coding development is similar to Camera in those days. In the early days, talking about cameras was about "people holding SLRs." The huge change was the emergence of a new group of people - "mobile photographers"
01:23:50 The early trend variable is the emergence of a new group of people, with rapid growth. **Today's new group of people is "Vibe Coder"**
01:25:23 Is Anthropic playing the role of Sony today? Other startups spend time on Camera/base models, or on - with the iteration of Camera, Snapchat, Instagram, TikTok, TikTok Live appeared
**Today's Agent is like a gorilla just picking up a burning stick**
01:37:12 Two possible future ecosystems for Agents: analogous to Singapore vs. the United States
01:40:44 Page rank becomes Agent rank
01:42:07 If you turn all to C companies into to B companies, you will be resisted by everyone
01:44:02 The network effect of Agents
01:46:02 We also want to become OS Agent! - The path doesn't tell you : )
01:46:30 I said to the team: **"99.9% of us are going to die"**
01:46:57 Today's Agent is like a gorilla picking up a stone and starting to smash things
01:47:58 "Always believe that the Model will get better, always believe that the Model has nothing to do with you"
01:49:50 The underlying model is creating smarter people, and application companies are adapting to our production needs through environment/experience
01:53:54 The OS Agent I envision: it is alive
01:58:26 Agents will next appear like tribes in human society, encountering trust issues, and needing ID cards and password locks
02:03:33 Observations on AI technology and products in the past 2 years (consuming tokens and squeezing intelligence in a more efficient way)
**First time as CEO**
02:14:50 Provide emotional value to your employees
02:19:53 Post-90s founders are more confident, more free and easy, and more rebellious
02:21:17 Fundraising is booming, but I feel like I'm walking on thin ice
02:23:35 Consciously fighting against Ego
02:33:45 Chess player and the person playing chess
02:36:57 Final quick Q&A;
Related episodes:
Talking with Yang Zhilin about the year of large model entrepreneurship: the increment of human ideals, the probabilistic non-consensus, and Sora
Talking with Wang Xiaochuan about the year of re-entrepreneurship: Responding to Zhu Xiaohu and the third possibility of China's AGI
Talking with Li Kaifu: What should we do if the United States forms an AGI hegemony?
3-Hour Interview with Xiao Hong, Founder of Manus: The World is Not a Linear Extrapolation, Be an Important Variable in the Game
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Original title:
101. 对YouWare创始人明超平3小时访谈:今天Agent像大猩猩刚拿起一根烧火棍
Original description:
<figure><img src="https://image.xyzcdn.net/Flo18nNUSP7OUNlTf8UgCdHxio6O.jpg" /></figure><p>今天的嘉宾是明超…