Today's guest is Dr. Yu Kai, founder and CEO of Horizon Robotics.
In the past 49 years of his life, **he has navigated the academic circles of Germany and the United States, the Chinese internet circle, the venture capital circle, the capital circle, and the automotive circle.** In each circle and "jianghu" (江湖, a term for the martial arts world or a specific community), he started as an unknown nobody and leveled up. In the end, he did well in every circle.
A former senior executive who has dealt with him commented, **Yu Kai is one of the most socially intelligent scientists.**
Yu Kai graduated from Nanjing University and the University of Munich. After graduation, he worked for Siemens and NEC Research Institute. In 2012, he returned to China to join Baidu, and in 2015, he left to found Horizon Robotics.
Coincidentally, 2025 marks the 10th anniversary of Horizon Robotics' founding. **This year, I spoke with Dr. Yu Kai twice, and this episode is his oral history.**
With the outbreak of the large language model wave, more artificial intelligence scientists are pouring into the entrepreneurial track from universities. Yu Kai's entrepreneurial philosophy may give everyone some inspiration - **entrepreneurship is not only about technology and business, nor is it just about conflict and competition, but also a "jianghu" story of people coming and going.**
Just like Zhang Zuolin's line in the TV series "Young Marshal": "Jianghu is not about fighting, it's about social skills."
In 2025, we will progress together with AI!
03:06 **Entering the Academic Jianghu**
Initially unknown in academic circles, a fortune teller said I would be "unknown and work in vain" before the age of 24.
I have published over 100 papers. I am very intoxicated, and I would appreciate my previous papers late at night.
Stories of meeting Geoffrey Hinton, Yann LeCun, and Andrew Ng.
There was a very silent person sitting opposite me, and no one paid attention to him. He was eating alone - this person is Richard Sutton, who recently won the Turing Award.
31:18 **Entering the Internet Jianghu Again**
I should be the first Chinese AI scholar who studied in the United States to return to China.
I immediately wrote to Geoffrey Hinton, and he replied: Kai, that's great, but would you mind if I also asked other companies?
The authorization I received at the time was to bid up to $24 million. After $24 million, I had to discuss each bid with the domestic side.
In order to win with a small probability, I took the lead and offered $12 million.
"Hey, you see Geoffrey Hinton doesn't seem to show up at meetings often, what's he doing...?"
I asked him: Hey, Andrew (Andrew Ng), what are you doing? How is everything going? I started to test him.
Andrew Ng was shocked! He said: You tricked me into Baidu, and you ran away yourself, that's not cool!
51:19 **Entering the Entrepreneurial Jianghu Again**
I made three investments: I bought Nvidia, I bought Tesla, and I wholeheartedly invested in Horizon Robotics.
This guy told me: Brother, you know what? My status at home now depends on that sentence of yours!
When Horizon Robotics was just founded, I looked at it, and Nvidia was only a $10.7 billion company, now it's 3 trillion!
What is one frustration that Andrew Ng had while leading Google Brain at Google? Not being able to buy GPUs!
Consensus is either wrong or worthless.
What is your business secret? What is something you saw that others didn't see? Is there a bug in this world? Is there a narrow door to the future that most people haven't paid attention to?
01:11:21 **Entering the Capital Jianghu Too**
We didn't write a single page of BP (business plan) and raised the first round. I thought: Wow, life is so easy!
As a result, in the second round, I discovered that I met with 50-60 institutions, and none of them placed an order. It was particularly tough... no one understood...
What I said was almost dry... for a long time... in the dark... and no one was moved.
I set an iron rule: the first time I meet with an investor, it must not be in his office, but in my office.
I kept pretending! I said: I really don't have time, I am just a focused, low-EQ scientist, tinkering with my own things, and I'm too lazy to deal with you.
We created the legendary 12 mini-rounds of Series C, taking 1.6 billion US dollars in one go - this is also a counter-consensus - without adding 1 cent of valuation in the middle.
Wow, Horizon Robotics actually has 102 shareholder investment institutions, I don't even know how I managed to get them.
01:21:39 **Switching to the Automotive Jianghu**
Scientists often have this problem when starting a business: 360-degree scanning.
After Zeng Ming's class, many of our classmates went back and cut directions and laid off teams.
One night while sleeping, I suddenly woke up in shock: Damn, this is not right!
With Changan: deliberately losing the game, you have to lose elegantly, discreetly, and deliberately.
With Li Xiang: Li Xiang told me when we climbed the mountain in early 2019: You should focus on the automotive direction.
With He Xiaopeng: I haven't conquered Xiaopeng yet - sometimes you have to attack head-on, sometimes you have to go around.
With Wang Chuanfu: We seized the opportunity window, which is equivalent to opening a small crack in the door, and we rushed in with a "whoosh."
02:09:48 **I am not a Jianghu Person**
My role model for leaders is Liu Bang.
Do you know who my favorite character is in these movies? Rhett Butler in "Gone with the Wind."
My surname is Yu, and the company's name is Horizon - leeway, leeway, always leave leeway for people and things.
Intelligent driving: OEMs (original equipment manufacturers) will not self-develop in the future, it is a standardized function.
3 years to complete 100% hands-off, 5 years to complete 100% eyes-off, 10 years to complete 100% minds-off.
What is the death door?
The CUDA of robots.
Next-generation chip innovation.
02:35:23 **Final Quick Q&A**
I think the world is a pre-written program, and everyone is acting according to the script.
02:39:26 **Additional Extras**
Teaching skills: If you are determined to resign, don't say anything bad about the company.
Yan Junjie's hairstyle is like mine (joke).
Andrew Ng and I seriously discussed entrepreneurship in the United States.
I drank Maotai with a college graduate to adjust him, unlike Li Xiang who is decisive.
Why is the WeChat profile picture Guan Yu?
[From Steam Engine to Self-Driving] Series
《3-Hour Interview with Li Xiang (Podcast Version): Otaku, AI, Family, Games and Ladder》
《Chatting with He Xiaopeng about FSD, "Swimming in a Sea of Blood," Heroes and Dogs in Troubled Times》
《Dialogue with Ola Källenius, Global CEO of Mercedes-Benz: CEO in Transition and 139-Year-Old Mercedes-Benz in Transition》
《Chatting with Lou Tiancheng about Robotaxi and ACRush: "The better L2 is done, the further away L4 is"》
Text version of this episode: 《Dialogue with Yu Kai: The World is More Than Swords and Shadows, It's a Jianghu Story of People Coming and Going》
Original title:
108. 余凯口述30年史：世界不止刀光剑影，是一部人来人往的江湖故事
Original description:
<figure><img src="https://image.xyzcdn.net/Flo18nNUSP7OUNlTf8UgCdHxio6O.jpg" /></figure><p>今天的嘉宾是地平…
